Re: A Deep question

[Carlos del Cacho]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Carlos del Cacho at 05 March 2003 20:57:10:

Since someone warned me aboput the existence of this thread I felt I should clarify my position and post a message in the forum.
The truth is I hardly know Denis Grafen, we've only exchanged a few mails since December. He's indeed encouraged me to release the present version (along with others) but I had no idea he was working on Pepito. I think it should be fine as long he posts the source code when he finally goes into releasing the binary (whenever that happens). Distributing private copies without source to third parties for beta testing is a minor violation of the GPL, but it's aceptable in my opinion and I'm not going to complain about it.
However I find somewhat disturbing the book extension change and the sudden configuration file metamorphosis as noted by Peter Berger. It seems as though he were trying to hide something... or maybe it's just my twisted mind playing tricks on me.

Downloaded from Deep homepage:
deep9.cfg:
HASH_SIZE 64
PAWN_HASH_SIZE 8
EGTB_PATH F:\Programme\ChessBase\Shredder 6 Classic\Tablebases
EGTB_CSIZE 8
USE_BOOK yes
BOOK_LEARN yes
GAME_STYLE normal
LOGGING yes
LANGUAGE English
Downloaded from Pepito homepage:
Pepito parameters - readme:
HASH_SIZE (default value: 8 MB)
PAWN_HASH_SIZE (default value: 3 MB)
EGTB_PATH (default value: -- none --)
EGTB_CSIZE (default value: 1 MB)
USE_BOOK (default value: yes)
BOOK_LEARN (default value: yes)
GAME_STYLE (default value: solid)
LOGGING (default value: no)
LANGUAGE (default value: Spanish)
Coincidence? Do Pepito's and Deep's author work together?
Greetings,
Peter

[Dann Corbit]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Dann Corbit at 05 March 2003 21:10:32:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: A Deep question geschrieben von: / posted by: Carlos del Cacho at 05 March 2003 20:57:10:

Since someone warned me aboput the existence of this thread I felt I should clarify my position and post a message in the forum.
The truth is I hardly know Denis Grafen, we've only exchanged a few mails since December. He's indeed encouraged me to release the present version (along with others) but I had no idea he was working on Pepito. I think it should be fine as long he posts the source code when he finally goes into releasing the binary (whenever that happens). Distributing private copies without source to third parties for beta testing is a minor violation of the GPL, but it's aceptable in my opinion and I'm not going to complain about it.
However I find somewhat disturbing the book extension change and the sudden configuration file metamorphosis as noted by Peter Berger. It seems as though he were trying to hide something... or maybe it's just my twisted mind playing tricks on me.

I think he is experimenting with different book formats right now. Actually, I have exchanged some emails with him on opening book ideas.
It is highly probable that at least the book code of Deep was based upon Pepito, considering the remarkable similarity of the initialization files.
I think before the trial starts, we should wait for a crime to be committed.
It might be good for Dennis to release the tension, to make a post that explains which ideas in Deep are his own ideas, and what programs he has used for ideas and inspiration.
For instance, Sjeng originally borrowed from Faile, but did so in good spirits and in open honesty and nobody could possibly fault him for it. His last iterations bore basically no resemblence to Faile -- not even in the fundamental data structures.
There are several programs that borrow from TSCP (some openly and some covertly).
I do think that the one thing that concerns all of us is:
"Credit where credit is due."
Also, if you borrow someone's code, you should abide by the agreements that are contingent upon usage.
Thus far, it is too early to say if any agreement has been breached. Hopefully, the cloud will lift and everyone will be happy.
I am also happy that every program that has claimed to be an original new idea and turned out to be a borrowed program with a few minor tweaks has been exposed and the "borrower" has departed in shame.
So, I think that time will tell.


my ftp site

[Marcus Prewarski]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Marcus Prewarski at 05 March 2003 21:47:00:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: A Deep question geschrieben von: / posted by: Dann Corbit at 05 March 2003 21:10:32:


Dan these are good points. For instance the format of the opening book for DrunkenMaster is compatible with Beowulf. In my latest released version 0.3 I even used Beowulf to create the opening book. (Hand crafting it was too much work). However nothing else is similar between DrunkenMaster and Beowulf, and even the format the book is stored internally is different. At least I think it is because I have no idea how it is stored in Beowulf.
And by the way I would like to say thanks to the authors of TSCP, MSCP, Faile, Gnu Chess, Gerbil and Beowulf because I used all for inpiration and ideas. However all the data structures and code for DrunkenMaster is all original. Currently I'm rewriting most of DrunkenMaster to use bit boards so perhaps I'll have a look into Crafty as well for that.
-Marcus

[Marcus Prewarski]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Marcus Prewarski at 05 March 2003 21:51:25:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: A Deep question geschrieben von: / posted by: Marcus Prewarski at 05 March 2003 21:47:00:


Actually I should say that 99% of the code is original. There were a few things such as polling for input under Windows that I had no idea how to do and I "borrowed heavily" from someone else, I think it was Faile.
-Marcus

Dan these are good points. For instance the format of the opening book for DrunkenMaster is compatible with Beowulf. In my latest released version 0.3 I even used Beowulf to create the opening book. (Hand crafting it was too much work). However nothing else is similar between DrunkenMaster and Beowulf, and even the format the book is stored internally is different. At least I think it is because I have no idea how it is stored in Beowulf.
And by the way I would like to say thanks to the authors of TSCP, MSCP, Faile, Gnu Chess, Gerbil and Beowulf because I used all for inpiration and ideas. However all the data structures and code for DrunkenMaster is all original. Currently I'm rewriting most of DrunkenMaster to use bit boards so perhaps I'll have a look into Crafty as well for that.
-Marcus