TWN new results, tables and some comments

[Volker Pittlik]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Volker Pittlik at 29 January 2004 11:15:15:



----------------------------------------------------------
Game No.  White                Black               Result   
----------------------------------------------------------
   190    RUFFIAN_200          BARON-105            1-0     
   189    BARON-105            RUFFIAN_200          0-1     
   188    GOTHMOG-045          GLC300               1-0     
   187    GLC300               GOTHMOG-045          1-0     
   186    KTULU-42             ELCHINITO_325        1/2-1/2 
   185    ELCHINITO_325        KTULU-42             1-0     
   184    PEPITO-159           DELFI-44             1-0     
   183    DELFI-44             PEPITO-159           1-0     
   182    QUARK-229            DEEPSJENG-15         0-1     
   181    DEEPSJENG-15         QUARK-229            1-0     
   180    RUFFIAN_LEIDEN       ARISTARCH-421        1/2-1/2 
   179    ARISTARCH-421        RUFFIAN_LEIDEN       1/2-1/2 
   178    REBEL-12             CRAFTY-19-9-DC       1/2-1/2 
   177    CRAFTY-19-9-DC       REBEL-12             1/2-1/2 
   176    SHREDDER-704         THEKING-323          1-0     
   175    THEKING-323          SHREDDER-704         0-1


The Tourney Without Name
Computer: XP2000+, 512 MB RAM, VPittlik
Hashtables: ~64MB
Tablebases: 4 pieces
Time control: 30 min for 60 moves
Ponder: Off Rank Name 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Points S-B 1. Shredder-704 XX == 11 =1 =1 11 0= 1= == 11 11 15.0 / 20 146.0 2. Ruffian_200 XX 1= 01 1= == 01 1= 1= 10 11 11 14.0 / 20 135.75 3. ELChinito_325 0= XX 01 1= 0= 1= 11 =0 =1 =0 11 11 13.5 / 22 120.75 4. Ruffian_Leiden == 10 XX =1 0= =1 == == 1= 11 11 13.0 / 20 135.0 5. TheKing-323 00 10 =0 XX == 11 == =1 11 1= 1= 10 13.0 / 22 134.25 6. Delfi-44 =0 0= 1= == XX 01 == 1= 10 1= 11 01 12.5 / 22 131.0 7. Ktulu-42 0= 00 10 XX 01 =1 =1 == 10 1= 1= 11 12.5 / 22 115.25 8. Rebel-12 1= =0 == == 10 XX 10 01 == 0= =1 01 11.0 / 22 116.25 9. DeepSjeng-15 =0 == == 0= =0 01 XX =1 == 11 11 11.0 / 20 109.25 10. Aristarch-421 00 10 == =0 10 XX == =0 11 11 11 11.0 / 20 95.25 11. Crafty-19-9-dc 1= 0= 0= 0= 00 =0 == XX 0= =1 1= 1= 9.5 / 22 99.25 12. Pepito-159 00 01 == =0 1= XX == 00 01 1= 11 9.5 / 20 81.75 13. GLC300 0= =1 0= 01 1= == XX == 00 10 == 9.0 / 20 91.5 14. SmarThink-017a 0= 01 00 0= == == =0 11 XX == 1= 9.0 / 20 88.75 15. Yace-09982 == 00 =0 0= 0= =1 10 == == XX 0= 7.5 / 20 82.0 16. Quark-229 00 =1 00 0= 00 00 0= 11 XX 01 =1 7.0 / 20 63.75 17. Gothmog-045 00 10 00 =0 00 00 0= 0= 01 1= 10 XX 10 7.0 / 24 59.75 18. Baron-105 00 00 00 00 01 10 00 00 == 0= =0 01 XX 5.0 / 24 48.0
This tourney was arranged with WB Tourney Manager 0.60 by Jori Ostrovskij.

First Rating
Because Shredder has to play with my lousy book I set its rating to the SSDF rating - 100.


Program         Elo      +       -      Games   Max. Rating     Min. Rating
.
Shredder-704    2712    131     126       20       2843            2586
Ruffian_200     2664    138     147       20       2802            2517
Ruffian_Leiden  2656    145      99       20       2801            2557
TheKing-323     2614    145     114       22       2759            2500
Delfi-44        2593    149     105       22       2742            2488
DeepSjeng-15    2580    162      95       20       2742            2485
ELChinito_325   2568    142     125       22       2710            2443
Aristarch-421   2557    162     127       20       2719            2430
Ktulu-42        2551    149     119       22       2700            2432
Rebel-12        2522    116     116       22       2638            2406
SmarThink-017a  2519     95     162       20       2614            2357
Crafty-19-9-dc  2502     91     149       22       2593            23
Pepito-159      2472    116     167       20       2588            2305
Yace-09982      2458     88     149       20       2546            2309
GLC300          2456     95     162       20       2551            2294
Quark-229       2411    161     145       20       2572            2266
Gothmog-045     2345    168     121       24       2513            2224
Baron-105       2310    192     112       24       2502            2198


The ratings have been calculated with Elostat. What do they tell us?
Not to much I'm afraid. We "know" now (with a 5% uncertainty) Shredder is better
than Yace, GLC, Quark, Gothmog and Baron. Pepito is 538 points weaker than Shredder
or possibly 2 points stronger.
I have absolutely no idea which Ruffian version is stronger. At least I can say
it would need more games than my system can handle. The editor is running out
of RAM if I copy and paste the games played again and again. Last results:


.    Program                          Elo    +   -   Games   Score   Av.Op.  Draws
.
...
.
.  2 Ruffian_200                    : 2664    7  10  5120    70.0 %   2517   30.0 %
.  3 Ruffian_Leiden                 : 2656    8   6  5120    65.0 %   2549   50.0 %


Even more than ~50000 games with the same setup wouldn't be enough to decide. And I don't have enough computers
to run so many games.
Regards, Volker



Tournament Details and PGN

[Frank Quisinsky]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Frank Quisinsky at 29 January 2004 12:06:58:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: TWN new results, tables and some comments geschrieben von: / posted by: Volker Pittlik at 29 January 2004 11:15:15:

Hi,

Even more than ~50000 games with the same setup wouldn't be enough to decide. And I don't have enough computers
to run so many games.
Regards, Volker

It's after all not easy to say!
After all what I saw I believe Ruffian Leiden is stronger for Blitz.
For longer time controls my results with Ruffian 2.0.0 are better, other beta testers have other results
Per-Ola is working on an two new versions of Ruffian.
Bugfix version of Ruffian 2.0.0 only, meaning only the bugfixes!
Ruffian 2.1.0 with the bugfixes of Ruffian 2.0.0!
We have to test the version 2.1.0 with comes in the next days. If you have the time for help a little bit it would be nice to see Ruffian 2.1.0 in this tournament too (later).
I saw that Shredder 7.04 losed only one game but played a lot of games remis. In my Arena 6 tournament are the results the same, Ruffin won but Shredder is in the near and Deep Sjeng. Deep Sjeng seems to have problems in your tourney. Do you used Deep Sjeng 1.5a or 1.5? Normaly Deep Sjeng must be in the near of Shredder and Ruffian but you are playing with longer time controls and I have test Deep Sjeng with 40 moves in 10 minutes only.
For me every time interesting to see that Shredder is not clearly on first position if a tournemant is running without the other ChessBase engines.
But in fact:
After 170 games with 40 moves in 10 minutes under Arena GUI Shredder made 53% and for me ... after my results ... is Shredder 7.04 maybe 30 ELO stronger as Ruffian under Arena Chess GUI with PGN random if I compare the results with strong amateurs.
Best
Frank

[Robert Allgeuer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Robert Allgeuer at 29 January 2004 17:30:32:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: TWN new results, tables and some comments geschrieben von: / posted by: Frank Quisinsky at 29 January 2004 12:06:58:

Hi,

Even more than ~50000 games with the same setup wouldn't be enough to decide. And I don't have enough computers
to run so many games.
Regards, Volker

It's after all not easy to say!
After all what I saw I believe Ruffian Leiden is stronger for Blitz.
For longer time controls my results with Ruffian 2.0.0 are better, other beta testers have other results
Per-Ola is working on an two new versions of Ruffian.
Bugfix version of Ruffian 2.0.0 only, meaning only the bugfixes!
Ruffian 2.1.0 with the bugfixes of Ruffian 2.0.0!
We have to test the version 2.1.0 with comes in the next days. If you have the time for help a little bit it would be nice to see Ruffian 2.1.0 in this tournament too (later).
I saw that Shredder 7.04 losed only one game but played a lot of games remis. In my Arena 6 tournament are the results the same, Ruffin won but Shredder is in the near and Deep Sjeng. Deep Sjeng seems to have problems in your tourney. Do you used Deep Sjeng 1.5a or 1.5? Normaly Deep Sjeng must be in the near of Shredder and Ruffian but you are playing with longer time controls and I have test Deep Sjeng with 40 moves in 10 minutes only.
For me every time interesting to see that Shredder is not clearly on first position if a tournemant is running without the other ChessBase engines.
But in fact:
After 170 games with 40 moves in 10 minutes under Arena GUI Shredder made 53% and for me ... after my results ... is Shredder 7.04 maybe 30 ELO stronger as Ruffian under Arena Chess GUI with PGN random if I compare the results with strong amateurs.
Best
Frank

Hi,
after having forked out 49 EUR + costs for mailing for Ruffian 2.0.0, which apparently will be obsolete quite soon: what will be your update policy for updating Ruffian to bugfix-2.0.0 and/or 2.1.0?
Thanks
Robert

[Dr.WAEL DEEB]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Dr.WAEL DEEB at 29 January 2004 18:59:47:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: TWN new results, tables and some comments geschrieben von: / posted by: Robert Allgeuer at 29 January 2004 17:30:32:

Hi,

Even more than ~50000 games with the same setup wouldn't be enough to decide. And I don't have enough computers
to run so many games.
Regards, Volker

It's after all not easy to say!
After all what I saw I believe Ruffian Leiden is stronger for Blitz.
For longer time controls my results with Ruffian 2.0.0 are better, other beta testers have other results
Per-Ola is working on an two new versions of Ruffian.
Bugfix version of Ruffian 2.0.0 only, meaning only the bugfixes!
Ruffian 2.1.0 with the bugfixes of Ruffian 2.0.0!
We have to test the version 2.1.0 with comes in the next days. If you have the time for help a little bit it would be nice to see Ruffian 2.1.0 in this tournament too (later).
I saw that Shredder 7.04 losed only one game but played a lot of games remis. In my Arena 6 tournament are the results the same, Ruffin won but Shredder is in the near and Deep Sjeng. Deep Sjeng seems to have problems in your tourney. Do you used Deep Sjeng 1.5a or 1.5? Normaly Deep Sjeng must be in the near of Shredder and Ruffian but you are playing with longer time controls and I have test Deep Sjeng with 40 moves in 10 minutes only.
For me every time interesting to see that Shredder is not clearly on first position if a tournemant is running without the other ChessBase engines.
But in fact:
After 170 games with 40 moves in 10 minutes under Arena GUI Shredder made 53% and for me ... after my results ... is Shredder 7.04 maybe 30 ELO stronger as Ruffian under Arena Chess GUI with PGN random if I compare the results with strong amateurs.
Best
Frank

Hi,
after having forked out 49 EUR + costs for mailing for Ruffian 2.0.0, which apparently will be obsolete quite soon: what will be your update policy for updating Ruffian to bugfix-2.0.0 and/or 2.1.0?
Thanks
Robert

Hi Robert,
Some weeks ago,Frank posted in the FCP Forum that the update will sure be free!
Regards,
Dr.WAEL DEEB

[Frank Quisinsky]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Frank Quisinsky at 29 January 2004 20:41:12:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: TWN new results, tables and some comments geschrieben von: / posted by: Dr.WAEL DEEB at 29 January 2004 18:59:47:

Hi,

Even more than ~50000 games with the same setup wouldn't be enough to decide. And I don't have enough computers
to run so many games.
Regards, Volker

It's after all not easy to say!
After all what I saw I believe Ruffian Leiden is stronger for Blitz.
For longer time controls my results with Ruffian 2.0.0 are better, other beta testers have other results
Per-Ola is working on an two new versions of Ruffian.
Bugfix version of Ruffian 2.0.0 only, meaning only the bugfixes!
Ruffian 2.1.0 with the bugfixes of Ruffian 2.0.0!
We have to test the version 2.1.0 with comes in the next days. If you have the time for help a little bit it would be nice to see Ruffian 2.1.0 in this tournament too (later).
I saw that Shredder 7.04 losed only one game but played a lot of games remis. In my Arena 6 tournament are the results the same, Ruffin won but Shredder is in the near and Deep Sjeng. Deep Sjeng seems to have problems in your tourney. Do you used Deep Sjeng 1.5a or 1.5? Normaly Deep Sjeng must be in the near of Shredder and Ruffian but you are playing with longer time controls and I have test Deep Sjeng with 40 moves in 10 minutes only.
For me every time interesting to see that Shredder is not clearly on first position if a tournemant is running without the other ChessBase engines.
But in fact:
After 170 games with 40 moves in 10 minutes under Arena GUI Shredder made 53% and for me ... after my results ... is Shredder 7.04 maybe 30 ELO stronger as Ruffian under Arena Chess GUI with PGN random if I compare the results with strong amateurs.
Best
Frank

Hi,
after having forked out 49 EUR + costs for mailing for Ruffian 2.0.0, which apparently will be obsolete quite soon: what will be your update policy for updating Ruffian to bugfix-2.0.0 and/or 2.1.0?
Thanks
Robert

Hi Robert,
Some weeks ago,Frank posted in the FCP Forum that the update will sure be free!
Regards,
Dr.WAEL DEEB

Hi,
for sure, we work on an update service for Ruffian buyers.
We have the biggest interest to create here a good service.
But we test the version 2.1.0 before we give the version free for our customers. Maybe one or two weeks. All is not 100% clear so far but the Ruffian buyers will find a good service, that is sure!
Best
Frank