BigLion says Good Bye

[Matthias Gemuh]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:


Hi chess addicts,
I have withdrawn from chess. Lack of success with BigLion has contributed only 5% to this abrupt decision. Latest work on BigLion, with really crazy ideas, is
released as Taktix 1.0. Taktix 1.0 and BigLion 1.75 are untested. I don't know whether Taktix is stronger than Elo 1800.
Happy chessing to everyone, but don't exaggerate. Time for more important things may be running out. The rapture is at hand.
Bye,
Matthias.


Taktix 1.0

[Dann Corbit]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Dann Corbit at 01 March 2003 00:34:10:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:

Hi chess addicts,
I have withdrawn from chess. Lack of success with BigLion has contributed only 5% to this abrupt decision. Latest work on BigLion, with really crazy ideas, is
released as Taktix 1.0. Taktix 1.0 and BigLion 1.75 are untested. I don't know whether Taktix is stronger than Elo 1800.
Happy chessing to everyone, but don't exaggerate. Time for more important things may be running out. The rapture is at hand.

Not every chess program can rule the world. A lot of effort goes into making even the most simple chess program. I remember the author of Mint made some funny statements about how much time we can waste writing a chess program. And it does become a passion.
At any rate, we thank you very much for your interesting chess programs.



my ftp site

[Thomas Mayer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Thomas Mayer at 01 March 2003 01:13:04:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Dann Corbit at 01 March 2003 00:34:10:


without words...
But still... Quark project Quark v2.x has started... I have also a quite changed version of the 1.xx approach, is there any interest in releasing that ?
Greets, Thomas

[Normand M. Blais]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Normand M. Blais at 01 March 2003 01:26:22:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:

Hi chess addicts,
I have withdrawn from chess. Lack of success with BigLion has contributed only 5% to this abrupt decision. Latest work on BigLion, with really crazy ideas, is
released as Taktix 1.0. Taktix 1.0 and BigLion 1.75 are untested. I don't know whether Taktix is stronger than Elo 1800.
Happy chessing to everyone, but don't exaggerate. Time for more important things may be running out. The rapture is at hand.
Bye,
Matthias.

I feel sorry to hear that. Your program is still better than mine (Alex) and for that reason I don't understand. I said somewhere that chess is not a sport but an ego trip. Chess programming is also an ego trip. One is happy when he or "her" program wins but unhappy when it loses. It's affect the ego more than anything. When your program is strong, it's name is mentionned all the time. When the program is weak, it is laugh at or not mentionned at all. I'm glad I call my program Alex (A Low Expectation chess program). The meaning for me more than the name keep me sane. Actually I notice that Alex is a very common name among strong players. So people with that name should proud more than anything. I'm surprise about your decision and, even if I don't know you, I feel sorry.
NMB

[Ron Murawski]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Ron Murawski at 01 March 2003 05:57:40:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:

Hi chess addicts,
I have withdrawn from chess. Lack of success with BigLion has contributed only 5% to this abrupt decision. Latest work on BigLion, with really crazy ideas, is
released as Taktix 1.0. Taktix 1.0 and BigLion 1.75 are untested. I don't know whether Taktix is stronger than Elo 1800.
Happy chessing to everyone, but don't exaggerate. Time for more important things may be running out. The rapture is at hand.
Bye,
Matthias.

Hi Matthias,
I always enjoyed reading about BigLion eating those zebras. Things won't be the same here in the WinBoard jungle without a BigLion prowling around. I hope we see you back again some day.
Ron

[Telmo Escobar]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Telmo Escobar at 01 March 2003 07:40:41:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:

Hi chess addicts,
I have withdrawn from chess. Lack of success with BigLion has contributed only 5% to this abrupt decision. Latest work on BigLion, with really crazy ideas, is
released as Taktix 1.0. Taktix 1.0 and BigLion 1.75 are untested. I don't know whether Taktix is stronger than Elo 1800.
Happy chessing to everyone, but don't exaggerate. Time for more important things may be running out. The rapture is at hand.
Bye,
Matthias.

What's this?
BigLion has its successes too:

[Event "BigLion teaches chess"]
[Site "Athlon-1200"]
[Date "2003.03.01"]
[Round "-"]
[White "BigLion"]
[Black "Escobar,T"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "120+12"]
1. e3 c5 2. Nc3 d5 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Ne5 e6 5. Bb5+ Nbd7 6. d4 Bd6 7. O-O O-O
8. f4 a6 9. Be2 Qc7 10. Bf3 b6 11. Re1 Bb7 12. Qd2 b5 13. a4 b4 14. Na2 a5
15. b3 Rac8 16. Nxd7 Qxd7 17. dxc5 Bxc5 18. Bb2 Be7 19. c3 Rfd8 20. cxb4
axb4 21. Red1 Qd6 22. Be5 Qb6 23. Bd4 Qa5 24. Qe1 Rc2 25. Nc1 Rdc8 26. Nd3
Ne4 27. g3 Ba6 28. Ne5 Qc7 29. a5 f6 30. Bb6 Qc3 31. Bg4 Qb2 32. Bxe6+ Kf8
33. Ng4 h5 34. Rdb1 Rg2+ 35. Kh1 Nf2+ 36. Kxg2
1-0
Please remember that your engine has its fans

[Alex Schmidt]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Alex Schmidt at 01 March 2003 09:19:17:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:

Hi Matthias,
I am sorry to hear that. BigLion gave me much joy! But of course there are more important things than computer chess.
Many thanks for everything, and good luck to you!
Bye,
Alex

[Rudolf Posch]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Rudolf Posch at 01 March 2003 09:45:51:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:

Hi Matthias,
I am very sad to hear that!
As you know I was down some weeks ago as my chess engine RDChess did not promote in Leo's WBEC Ridderkerk Qualify where your program played so well and was promoted. In the mean time both BigLion and RDChess played well in Guenthers Regensburger RWBC, this time had RDChess more luck and promoted. There are ups and downs in chess, as in real life!
I do understand when you have besides chess other priorities, chess programming and testing and running is a time consuming process as my wife unhappily experiences from day to day when she sees me sitting all the time on the PC instead of courtesing her.
About 1 year ago I also nearly stopped my work on RDChess, but restarted it with implementing a Winboard interface. Since then I am again full involved.
So think your decision over! Write a full new evaluation function, or implement bitboards or change something else, but keep working!
Greetings Rudolf
P.S. I use your engine as benchmark for my new program versions, testing if a new version plays better or worse. This is one more small point why you can't stop!

[Thomas Lagershausen]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Thomas Lagershausen at 01 March 2003 10:53:28:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Thomas Mayer at 01 March 2003 01:13:04:

without words...
But still... Quark project Quark v2.x has started... I have also a quite changed version of the 1.xx approach, is there any interest in releasing that ?
Greets, Thomas

Of course, we need programs with a creativ spirit.
Look at King of Kings 2.03
Kasparov - Ponarmarjov (Linares 2003)
 abcdefgh  8      8  7    7  6       6  5         5  4        4  3       3  2     2  1      1  abcdefgh ChessDiag V1.01 (12-OCT-2002)Mit 13. e2-e4 !! nutzt Kasparov lehrbuchartig die Randstellung des Springers a6 aus.
Nur King of Kings 2.03 kann sich hier mit der Kreativität Kasparovs messen.
r2q1rk1/pbp2ppp/np3b2/3p4/3P1B2/2P2NP1/P3PPBP/2RQ1RK1 w - - 0 1
Greetings
TL

[Günther Simon]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Günther Simon at 01 March 2003 11:00:40:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Thomas Mayer at 01 March 2003 01:13:04:

without words...
But still... Quark project Quark v2.x has started... I have also a quite changed version of the 1.xx approach, is there any interest in releasing that ?
Greets, Thomas

Yes!
Best regards,
Günther

[Günther Simon]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Günther Simon at 01 March 2003 11:10:58:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:

Hi chess addicts,
I have withdrawn from chess. Lack of success with BigLion has contributed only 5% to this abrupt decision. Latest work on BigLion, with really crazy ideas, is
released as Taktix 1.0. Taktix 1.0 and BigLion 1.75 are untested. I don't know whether Taktix is stronger than Elo 1800.
Happy chessing to everyone, but don't exaggerate. Time for more important things may be running out. The rapture is at hand.
Bye,
Matthias.

I would like to see you come back at least as a seldom visitor
because I appreciated you as very nice and humorous person.
Of course there are much more important things in life
than this hobby but please give BigLion another chance some
time later.
All my best wishes,
Günther

[Andreas Herrmann]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Andreas Herrmann at 01 March 2003 11:17:22:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:

Hi chess addicts,
I have withdrawn from chess. Lack of success with BigLion has contributed only 5% to this abrupt decision. Latest work on BigLion, with really crazy ideas, is
released as Taktix 1.0. Taktix 1.0 and BigLion 1.75 are untested. I don't know whether Taktix is stronger than Elo 1800.
Happy chessing to everyone, but don't exaggerate. Time for more important things may be running out. The rapture is at hand.
Bye,
Matthias.

Hi Matthias,
since i have started with chess programming in 1998 i have often made longer pauses (a halv or a full year) from it. My real fever in chess programming is only a few days or weeks in a year, where i'm working on Holmes.
Then there comes a point where i have implemented or changed a lot of thinks in Holmes and the final result is often a weaker engine than before
My motivation is down and i do other things than chess programming for some weeks, some month or longer.
But chess programming is a "drug". And believe me, there comes the day, where you are working again on your engine. So i'm sure i will hear again from you, BigLion and Zebras in the future
all the best
Andreas

[Dieter Eberle]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Dieter Eberle at 01 March 2003 11:43:42:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Thomas Mayer at 01 March 2003 01:13:04:

without words...
But still... Quark project Quark v2.x has started... I have also a quite changed version of the 1.xx approach, is there any interest in releasing that ?
Greets, Thomas

Every new version of Quark is of interest for us.
Regards
Dieter Eberle

[Sune Fischer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Sune Fischer at 01 March 2003 14:34:17:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:

Hi chess addicts,
I have withdrawn from chess. Lack of success with BigLion has contributed only 5% to this abrupt decision. Latest work on BigLion, with really crazy ideas, is
released as Taktix 1.0. Taktix 1.0 and BigLion 1.75 are untested. I don't know whether Taktix is stronger than Elo 1800.
Happy chessing to everyone, but don't exaggerate. Time for more important things may be running out. The rapture is at hand.
Bye,
Matthias.

Oh no, this is sad news.
BigLion was up and comming for sure.
I don't know what you mean by "more important things", you've lost me there...
You give the Lion a decent meal and a nap, then he'll be back fighting in no time, you'll see.
-S.

[Slobodan R. Stojanovic]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Slobodan R. Stojanovic at 01 March 2003 14:42:33:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:

Hi chess addicts,
I have withdrawn from chess. Lack of success with BigLion has contributed only 5% to this abrupt decision. Latest work on BigLion, with really crazy ideas, is
released as Taktix 1.0. Taktix 1.0 and BigLion 1.75 are untested. I don't know whether Taktix is stronger than Elo 1800.
Happy chessing to everyone, but don't exaggerate. Time for more important things may be running out. The rapture is at hand.
Bye,
Matthias.

Hi Matthias,
I would like to tell you something:
If you are abandoning chess programing it´s your personal decision, but I´ll give you an advice: don´t abandon chess. If you think that there are something more importante than chess, you are wrong: "things" cannot be compared in this way; chess is not here, at our hands, to be compared with our mundane wishes and longings. It is here like a worshiped labyrinth that distracts and brings peace to our minds.
My friendly fillings.
Sl.

Chess is here not to compete with "importante"

[Engin Üstün]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Engin Üstün at 01 March 2003 17:16:46:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:

Hi chess addicts,
I have withdrawn from chess. Lack of success with BigLion has contributed only 5% to this abrupt decision. Latest work on BigLion, with really crazy ideas, is
released as Taktix 1.0. Taktix 1.0 and BigLion 1.75 are untested. I don't know whether Taktix is stronger than Elo 1800.
Happy chessing to everyone, but don't exaggerate. Time for more important things may be running out. The rapture is at hand.
Bye,
Matthias.

Go on Matthias !
or try to write a complete new chess engine.

[Telmo Escobar]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Telmo Escobar at 01 March 2003 21:14:44:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:


It seems strange, if understandably human, that Matthias could feel disillusioned about his work in the very moment when he releases such a fascinating engine. Taktix looks stronger than BigLion 1.75:

[Event "Casual game"]
[Site "Athlon-1200"]
[Date "2003.03.01"]
[Round "-"]
[White "WJChess 1.3"]
[Black "BigLion"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "120+12"]
1. Nc3 e5 2. a3 d5 3. d4 exd4 4. Qxd4 c6 5. e4 Qe7 6. Be3 dxe4 7. Nxe4 f5
8. Nc3 Nf6 9. O-O-O Nbd7 10. Nf3 Nb6 11. Bd3 Be6 12. Bg5 Rd8 13. Bxf6 gxf6
14. Qe3 Rd6 15. Nh4 Nd5 16. Nxd5 Rxd5 17. Rhe1 Re5 18. Qxa7 Bh6+ 19. Kb1
O-O 20. Nf3 Rxe1 21. Rxe1 Qf7 22. Nd4 Ba2+ 23. Ka1 Bd5 24. Nxf5 Bf4 25. Re7
Qh5 26. Rg7+ Kh8 27. g4 Qxh2 28. c4 Qh1+ 29. Ka2 Bg8 30. Rxb7 Qh3 31. Rb8
Bh6 32. f3 Qh2 33. Rb3 Qf4 34. Qd7 c5 35. Qe7 Rf7 36. Qxc5 Rc7 37. Qa5 Bf8
38. Qa8 Bd6 39. Rb8 Rg7 40. Re8 Bb8 41. Rxb8 h5 42. Nxg7 Qxb8 43. Qxb8 Kxg7
44. gxh5 Kf7 45. Qc7+ Kf8 46. h6 f5 47. Qg7+ Ke8 48. Qxg8+ Kd7 49. Bxf5+
Kd6 50. Qe6+ Kc7 51. c5 Kb8 52. Qb6+ Ka8 53. Be4#
1-0
[Event "Also testing"]
[Site "Athlon-1200"]
[Date "2003.03.01"]
[Round "-"]
[White "WJChess 1.3"]
[Black "Taktix"]
[Result "0-1"]
[TimeControl "120+12"]
1. g3 Nf6 2. d4 c5 3. dxc5 Na6 4. e4 e5 5. Bxa6 bxa6 6. Nf3 Bxc5 7. Nxe5
Qe7 8. Nd3 Qxe4+ 9. Kd2 Qd4 10. c3 Qd5 11. Re1+ Be7 12. Qe2 Qe6 13. Qf3 Qc6
14. Qe3 Nd5 15. Qg5 Kf8 16. Qe5 Bb7 17. Qf5 Kg8 18. f4 Rd8 19. h3 Qb6 20.
b3 g6 21. Qe4 Bf6 22. Qa4 Ne7 23. Bb2 Nf5 24. g4 Nh4 25. Kc2 Ng2 26. Re2
Bf3 27. Rd2 Bc6 28. Qa3 Be4 29. Qa4 Qe3 30. Na3 Bxd3+ 31. Rxd3 Qe2+ 32. Kc1
Qxd3 33. Nc2 Bxc3 34. Bxc3 Qxc3 35. a3 Rc8 36. Ra2 Qe3+ 37. Kb1 Qg1+ 38.
Kb2 Ne3 39. Qe4 Qd1 40. a4 Rxc2+ 41. Ka3 Qd6+ 42. b4 Rc3+ 43. Kb2 Qd2+ 44.
Ka1 Rc1+ 45. Qb1 Qc3+ 46. Rb2 Nc2+ 47. Ka2 Qa3#
0-1
I'm fond of this kind of bizarre games, cause my own style was no less crazy some years ago. The following games are mine, not BigLion's:
[Event "Open Tournament"]
[Site "Buenos Aires"]
[Date "1975.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Tanner"]
[Black "Escobar"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "D72"]
[PlyCount "90"]
[EventDate "1975.??.??"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 6. e4 Nb6 7. Ne2 O-O 8.
O-O a5 9. Nbc3 a4 10. Bf4 Nc4 11. Qc1 e5 12. dxe5 Nxe5 13. Rd1 Nbd7 14. Bg5
f6 15. Bh6 c6 16. Bxg7 Kxg7 17. Nd4 Qe7 18. Qc2 Nc5 19. Rac1 Kh8 20. Nd5
cxd5 21. Qxc5 Qxc5 22. Rxc5 dxe4 23. Bxe4 Rd8 24. Rcc1 Rb8 25. f4 f5 26.
fxe5 fxe4 27. Kf2 Bg4 28. Rd2 Rd5 29. Ke3 Rbd8 30. Rf1 Rxe5 31. Nc6 Rxd2
32. Nxe5 Re2+ 33. Kf4 Be6 34. h4 Rxb2 35. Kxe4 Rxa2 36. Rf6 Re2+ 37. Kd4
Rd2+ 38. Kc3 Rd6 39. Kb4 Kg7 40. Rf2 Rd4+ 41. Kc3 Re4 42. Nd3 Re3 43. Kd4
Rxg3 44. Nc5 Bf5 45. Nxb7 Rg4+
0-1
[Event "2nd League"]
[Site "Buenos Aires"]
[Date "1976.??.??"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Saladino"]
[Black "Escobar"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A55"]
[PlyCount "74"]
[EventDate "1976.??.??"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 Nbd7 4. Nf3 e5 5. e4 c6 6. Be2 Be7 7. O-O Qc7 8.
Qc2 Nf8 9. Rd1 Ng6 10. dxe5 dxe5 11. Ne1 Nf4 12. Bf1 g5 13. Nd3 h5 14. a3
Be6 15. Na4 h4 16. b4 g4 17. Bb2 Ng6 18. Nac5 Bc8 19. Re1 Nh5 20. Qd2 Rg8
21. Kh1 g3 22. fxg3 hxg3 23. h3 Bf6 24. Rad1 b6 25. Na4 Be6 26. Qc2 Qc8 27.
Bc1 Nh4 28. Qe2 Rh8 29. Nab2 Bxh3 30. gxh3 g2+ 31. Kh2 Ng3 32. Qf2 Nf3+ 33.
Kxg2 Qxh3+ 34. Kxf3 Nxf1+ 35. Ke2 Qg4+ 36. Qf3 Rh2+ 37. Nf2 Ng3+
0-1
[Event "Club Championship"]
[Site "Buenos Aires"]
[Date "?"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Roca"]
[Black "Escobar"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A11"]
[PlyCount "79"]
[EventDate "1977.??.??"]
1. c4 c6 2. g3 d5 3. b3 dxc4 4. bxc4 Qd4 5. Nc3 Qxc4 6. Nf3 Nd7 7. e4 Qc5
8. Qb3 Qb6 9. Qc2 e5 10. Bc4 Be7 11. O-O Ngf6 12. Rb1 Qa5 13. Ng5 Rf8 14.
Qb3 Nc5 15. Bxf7+ Kd8 16. Qc4 h6 17. Ne6+ Bxe6 18. Bxe6 b5 19. Nxb5 Nxe6
20. Qxe6 cxb5 21. Qxe5 a6 22. d4 Qc7 23. Qxc7+ Kxc7 24. Bf4+ Kb6 25. f3
Rac8 26. Rfc1 Ba3 27. Rxc8 Rxc8 28. d5 g5 29. Be5 Nd7 30. Bg7 Rc2 31. e5
Bc5+ 32. Kh1 Re2 33. e6 Ne5 34. Rf1 Nd3 35. h4 gxh4 36. gxh4 Nb4 37. Bxh6
Nxd5 38. Bg5 Be7 39. Rd1 Bxg5 40. hxg5
0-1

It is maybe for this reason that BigLion has been one of my favorite engines, no matter the results.
Also I feel that BigLion, if not among the strongest, is not among the weakest either. There are a lot of weaker engines. Matthias has done an excellent work with his engine. And now that Taktix is in stage, I look for ever more interesting prospects.
Telmp

[Matthias Gemuh]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 22:58:42:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 01 March 2003 00:31:02:

Hi chess addicts,
I have withdrawn from chess. Lack of success with BigLion has contributed only 5% to this abrupt decision. Latest work on BigLion, with really crazy ideas, is
released as Taktix 1.0. Taktix 1.0 and BigLion 1.75 are untested. I don't know whether Taktix is stronger than Elo 1800.
Happy chessing to everyone, but don't exaggerate. Time for more important things may be running out. The rapture is at hand.
Bye,
Matthias.

Hi to everybody !
Thanks for the many nice farewell words.
I thought I would release source code when quitting,
but it is presently a real mess. Maybe I shall one day clean up
and then release it, uncommented as I never comment anything.
Except for some special endgame cases, Taktix contains my most complete eval.
Speed was not important. It needs a lot of time to fool around in eval.
It should play intertaining, but not competitive chess, except long timecontrol.
The final BigLion I wanted to release was BigLion 1.75, and stronger than 1.7c, but it was reported buggy. The 1.75a is a working weak replacement.
If I cannot fix the strong 1.75, I will erase 1.75 and let 1.7c be last version.
Thanks,
Matthias

P.S.: I will still frequent this forum and tournament homepages in future,
till BigLion 1.7c (or 1.75?) has been thrown out everywhere .

[Gábor Szõts]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Gábor Szõts at 03 March 2003 11:09:06:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: BigLion says Good Bye geschrieben von: / posted by: Thomas Mayer at 01 March 2003 01:13:04:

without words...
But still... Quark project Quark v2.x has started... I have also a quite changed version of the 1.xx approach, is there any interest in releasing that ?
Greets, Thomas