Information

[Denis Grafen]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Denis Grafen at 15 March 2003 20:13:20:

Project: Deep
Deep is an Chess Engine based on the Open Source Project Pepito from Carlos Del Cacho. The Source Code from Pepito is on the Website. Also the Source Code from Deep.
The Intention is to improve the very nice Code from Carlos with new technical features.
ToDo List
1.Translate all Spanisch Code to Englisch. Put the new Source Code on the Website.
2.With this Code it starts.
3.Implement Multilangauage (that means the Output Lang. can change by config File from ESP to ENG and Ger.
4.Implement more import Filters for the Opening Book (Rebel, Chessmaster, Chessgenius)
5.Implement the new EGTB code for the new Tablebases.
6.Imporove the Strength from middlegame to the endgame.
7.Improve the strenght of the endgame.
8.Implement more UCI Options (clear Hash, disable EGTB support ..)
9.Implement SMP Code
10.Implement more Features on the Console Mode (benchmark tests, command distribution and copyright.)
11.Disable the Bug when Importing Fritz Opening Books.
12. Expanded the Opening Book Format with more Header informations, and more Annotations
13. ...
More Options will to be define.

[Andreas Herrmann]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Andreas Herrmann at 15 March 2003 20:49:50:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Denis Grafen at 15 March 2003 20:13:20:

but then don't call it Deep9.
The name is Pepito !!
And don't delete the copyright from Carlos and replace it with your name.

Project: Deep
Deep is an Chess Engine based on the Open Source Project Pepito from Carlos Del Cacho. The Source Code from Pepito is on the Website. Also the Source Code from Deep.
The Intention is to improve the very nice Code from Carlos with new technical features.
ToDo List
1.Translate all Spanisch Code to Englisch. Put the new Source Code on the Website.
2.With this Code it starts.
3.Implement Multilangauage (that means the Output Lang. can change by config File from ESP to ENG and Ger.
4.Implement more import Filters for the Opening Book (Rebel, Chessmaster, Chessgenius)
5.Implement the new EGTB code for the new Tablebases.
6.Imporove the Strength from middlegame to the endgame.
7.Improve the strenght of the endgame.
8.Implement more UCI Options (clear Hash, disable EGTB support ..)
9.Implement SMP Code
10.Implement more Features on the Console Mode (benchmark tests, command distribution and copyright.)
11.Disable the Bug when Importing Fritz Opening Books.
12. Expanded the Opening Book Format with more Header informations, and more Annotations
13. ...
More Options will to be define.

[Günther Simon]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Günther Simon at 15 March 2003 21:11:12:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Denis Grafen at 15 March 2003 20:13:20:

Project: Deep
Deep is an Chess Engine based on the Open Source Project Pepito from Carlos Del Cacho. The Source Code from Pepito is on the Website. Also the Source Code from Deep.
The Intention is to improve the very nice Code from Carlos with new technical features.
ToDo List
1.Translate all Spanisch Code to Englisch. Put the new Source Code on the Website.
2.With this Code it starts.
3.Implement Multilangauage (that means the Output Lang. can change by config File from ESP to ENG and Ger.
4.Implement more import Filters for the Opening Book (Rebel, Chessmaster, Chessgenius)
5.Implement the new EGTB code for the new Tablebases.
6.Imporove the Strength from middlegame to the endgame.
7.Improve the strenght of the endgame.
8.Implement more UCI Options (clear Hash, disable EGTB support ..)
9.Implement SMP Code
10.Implement more Features on the Console Mode (benchmark tests, command distribution and copyright.)
11.Disable the Bug when Importing Fritz Opening Books.
12. Expanded the Opening Book Format with more Header informations, and more Annotations
13. ...
More Options will to be define.

I think its up to Carlos to improve on his code...and its already
one of the best non commercial ones!
Maybe Carlos will think again about the GPL license?
Günther

[Sune Fischer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Sune Fischer at 15 March 2003 21:31:24:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Denis Grafen at 15 March 2003 20:13:20:

Project: Deep
Deep is an Chess Engine based on the Open Source Project Pepito from Carlos Del Cacho. The Source Code from Pepito is on the Website. Also the Source Code from Deep.
The Intention is to improve the very nice Code from Carlos with new technical features.
ToDo List
1.Translate all Spanisch Code to Englisch. Put the new Source Code on the Website.
2.With this Code it starts.
3.Implement Multilangauage (that means the Output Lang. can change by config File from ESP to ENG and Ger.
4.Implement more import Filters for the Opening Book (Rebel, Chessmaster, Chessgenius)
5.Implement the new EGTB code for the new Tablebases.
6.Imporove the Strength from middlegame to the endgame.
7.Improve the strenght of the endgame.
8.Implement more UCI Options (clear Hash, disable EGTB support ..)
9.Implement SMP Code
10.Implement more Features on the Console Mode (benchmark tests, command distribution and copyright.)
11.Disable the Bug when Importing Fritz Opening Books.
12. Expanded the Opening Book Format with more Header informations, and more Annotations
13. ...
More Options will to be define.

I think your first jobs are to:
a) explain why you copied/stole Pepito and claimed you were the author without any reference to Pepito, and why you tried to enter it into tournaments as your own engine.
b) apologize to the Carlos and all those that spent time testing this "new" engine.
c) tell us when you planned to tell the truth, if you had not been caught.
-S.

[Charles Reese]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Charles Reese at 15 March 2003 22:11:28:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Sune Fischer at 15 March 2003 21:31:24:

Project: Deep
Deep is an Chess Engine based on the Open Source Project Pepito from Carlos Del Cacho. The Source Code from Pepito is on the Website. Also the Source Code from Deep.
The Intention is to improve the very nice Code from Carlos with new technical features.

I think your first jobs are to:
a) explain why you copied/stole Pepito and claimed you were the author without any reference to Pepito, and why you tried to enter it into tournaments as your own engine.
b) apologize to the Carlos and all those that spent time testing this "new" engine.
c) tell us when you planned to tell the truth, if you had not been caught.
-S.
What does Carlos Del Cacho say about all this? was he informed from the
beginning?

snipped
From the CCC board for those of us who don't read them:
"Posted by Carlos del Cacho (Profile) on March 15, 2003 at 14:52:27:
In Reply to: Re: Information posted by Jonas Cohonas on March 15, 2003 at 14:24:47:

Denis emailed me today to inform me about the status of the Deep project. I'm
not going to judge whether his intentions where good or bad, but if he wants to
correct his mistakes and go on we should give him a second try. My code is free
for anyone to modify as long as the copyright is respected. Since Denis seems to
be willing to keep up with the GPL, it's okay with me."
I do not condone what Denis has done. As things stand I suspect that any work released by Denis will be under scrutiny for some time to come but in the spirit of the grace exhibited by Carlos I suggest we draw a line and move on.

[U.Tuerke]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: U.Tuerke at 15 March 2003 22:16:44:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Denis Grafen at 15 March 2003 20:13:20:

Project: Deep
Deep is an Chess Engine based on the Open Source Project Pepito from Carlos Del Cacho. The Source Code from Pepito is on the Website. Also the Source Code from Deep.
The Intention is to improve the very nice Code from Carlos with new technical features.
ToDo List
1.Translate all Spanisch Code to Englisch. Put the new Source Code on the Website.
2.With this Code it starts.
3.Implement Multilangauage (that means the Output Lang. can change by config File from ESP to ENG and Ger.
4.Implement more import Filters for the Opening Book (Rebel, Chessmaster, Chessgenius)
5.Implement the new EGTB code for the new Tablebases.
6.Imporove the Strength from middlegame to the endgame.
7.Improve the strenght of the endgame.
8.Implement more UCI Options (clear Hash, disable EGTB support ..)
9.Implement SMP Code
10.Implement more Features on the Console Mode (benchmark tests, command distribution and copyright.)
11.Disable the Bug when Importing Fritz Opening Books.
12. Expanded the Opening Book Format with more Header informations, and more Annotations
13. ...
More Options will to be define.

nicht schlecht, Herr Specht ! -:)

[Sune Fischer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Sune Fischer at 15 March 2003 22:24:39:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Charles Reese at 15 March 2003 22:11:28:

Project: Deep
Deep is an Chess Engine based on the Open Source Project Pepito from Carlos Del Cacho. The Source Code from Pepito is on the Website. Also the Source Code from Deep.
The Intention is to improve the very nice Code from Carlos with new technical features.

I think your first jobs are to:
a) explain why you copied/stole Pepito and claimed you were the author without any reference to Pepito, and why you tried to enter it into tournaments as your own engine.
b) apologize to the Carlos and all those that spent time testing this "new" engine.
c) tell us when you planned to tell the truth, if you had not been caught.
-S.
What does Carlos Del Cacho say about all this? was he informed from the
beginning?

snipped
From the CCC board for those of us who don't read them:
"Posted by Carlos del Cacho (Profile) on March 15, 2003 at 14:52:27:
In Reply to: Re: Information posted by Jonas Cohonas on March 15, 2003 at 14:24:47:

Denis emailed me today to inform me about the status of the Deep project. I'm
not going to judge whether his intentions where good or bad, but if he wants to
correct his mistakes and go on we should give him a second try. My code is free
for anyone to modify as long as the copyright is respected. Since Denis seems to
be willing to keep up with the GPL, it's okay with me."
I do not condone what Denis has done. As things stand I suspect that any work released by Denis will be under scrutiny for some time to come but in the spirit of the grace exhibited by Carlos I suggest we draw a line and move on.

I think it is hard to achieve closure without hearing why he did as he did.
Afterall it is not the first time he pulled this trick, so pleaing innocence just doesn't seem to cut it.
Also remember that cloning is _the_ major threat to the whole amateur chess community, we have to keep our guard up if we don't want to be overrun with clones in the future. It is a long hard fought battle.
Personally I get very angry when people clone, it is like losing the gold medal at the olympics to some guy that used drugs while I myself was clean.
Writing a good engine is hard, very hard, it takes years. You don't become a chess programmer of a good engine in a few days just by changing a few strings.
-S.

[Matthias Gemuh]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Matthias Gemuh at 15 March 2003 22:31:14:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Denis Grafen at 15 March 2003 20:13:20:


I would say take your hands off Pepito.
The chess programming skills you have displayed so far don't seem to suggest that you can improve anything in middlegame and endgame of Pepito. Prove yourself to this deceived/disappointed chess community by writing even the weakest chess program and revealing its source code.
That should reinstall you amongst us.
/Matthias.

[Charles Reese]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Charles Reese at 15 March 2003 22:34:34:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Sune Fischer at 15 March 2003 22:24:39:

I think it is hard to achieve closure without hearing why he did as he did.
Afterall it is not the first time he pulled this trick, so pleaing innocence just doesn't seem to cut it.
Also remember that cloning is _the_ major threat to the whole amateur chess community, we have to keep our guard up if we don't want to be overrun with clones in the future. It is a long hard fought battle.
Personally I get very angry when people clone, it is like losing the gold medal at the olympics to some guy that used drugs while I myself was clean.
Writing a good engine is hard, very hard, it takes years. You don't become a chess programmer of a good engine in a few days just by changing a few strings.
-S.

As I said, I don't condone what he's done. However I suspect u won't get the closure u want.. certainly not in the way u want it. Sometimes when one makes a mistake there AREN'T any good reasons to offer in self defence. And a ton of people asking for good reasons to achieve closure won't bring that goal any closer.
If Denis learns from this episode whether he releases something worthy or not then I would argue that at least some good has come of it. If he doesn't n continues in this vein? Well I suspect he'll be found out again. However persecution after the fact doesn't provide anything constructive.

[Sune Fischer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Sune Fischer at 15 March 2003 22:36:55:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Charles Reese at 15 March 2003 22:34:34:

I think it is hard to achieve closure without hearing why he did as he did.
Afterall it is not the first time he pulled this trick, so pleaing innocence just doesn't seem to cut it.
Also remember that cloning is _the_ major threat to the whole amateur chess community, we have to keep our guard up if we don't want to be overrun with clones in the future. It is a long hard fought battle.
Personally I get very angry when people clone, it is like losing the gold medal at the olympics to some guy that used drugs while I myself was clean.
Writing a good engine is hard, very hard, it takes years. You don't become a chess programmer of a good engine in a few days just by changing a few strings.
-S.

As I said, I don't condone what he's done. However I suspect u won't get the closure u want.. certainly not in the way u want it. Sometimes when one makes a mistake there AREN'T any good reasons to offer in self defence. And a ton of people asking for good reasons to achieve closure won't bring that goal any closer.
If Denis learns from this episode whether he releases something worthy or not then I would argue that at least some good has come of it. If he doesn't n continues in this vein? Well I suspect he'll be found out again. However persecution after the fact doesn't provide anything constructive.

Right.
I thought I would offer him the chance to explain, but silence is also an answer I can use to get closure.
-S.

[Andrew Williams]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Andrew Williams at 15 March 2003 23:56:59:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: IMHO this is incredible! geschrieben von: / posted by: Günther Simon at 15 March 2003 21:11:12:

Project: Deep
Deep is an Chess Engine based on the Open Source Project Pepito from Carlos Del Cacho. The Source Code from Pepito is on the Website. Also the Source Code from Deep.
The Intention is to improve the very nice Code from Carlos with new technical features.
ToDo List
1.Translate all Spanisch Code to Englisch. Put the new Source Code on the Website.
2.With this Code it starts.
3.Implement Multilangauage (that means the Output Lang. can change by config File from ESP to ENG and Ger.
4.Implement more import Filters for the Opening Book (Rebel, Chessmaster, Chessgenius)
5.Implement the new EGTB code for the new Tablebases.
6.Imporove the Strength from middlegame to the endgame.
7.Improve the strenght of the endgame.
8.Implement more UCI Options (clear Hash, disable EGTB support ..)
9.Implement SMP Code
10.Implement more Features on the Console Mode (benchmark tests, command distribution and copyright.)
11.Disable the Bug when Importing Fritz Opening Books.
12. Expanded the Opening Book Format with more Header informations, and more Annotations
13. ...
More Options will to be define.

I think its up to Carlos to improve on his code...and its already
one of the best non commercial ones!
Maybe Carlos will think again about the GPL license?
Günther

There is no problem with the licence. The GPL specifically prohibits Denis Grafen from doing what he did before, and specifically requires him to do what he is doing now. The problem was that Denis Grafen was not complying with the terms of the licence.
Andrew Williams

[Michael]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Michael at 16 March 2003 00:38:03:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Denis Grafen at 15 March 2003 20:13:20:

You left out:
Pretend it is my own and try to sell it.

Project: Deep
Deep is an Chess Engine based on the Open Source Project Pepito from Carlos Del Cacho. The Source Code from Pepito is on the Website. Also the Source Code from Deep.
The Intention is to improve the very nice Code from Carlos with new technical features.
ToDo List
1.Translate all Spanisch Code to Englisch. Put the new Source Code on the Website.
2.With this Code it starts.
3.Implement Multilangauage (that means the Output Lang. can change by config File from ESP to ENG and Ger.
4.Implement more import Filters for the Opening Book (Rebel, Chessmaster, Chessgenius)
5.Implement the new EGTB code for the new Tablebases.
6.Imporove the Strength from middlegame to the endgame.
7.Improve the strenght of the endgame.
8.Implement more UCI Options (clear Hash, disable EGTB support ..)
9.Implement SMP Code
10.Implement more Features on the Console Mode (benchmark tests, command distribution and copyright.)
11.Disable the Bug when Importing Fritz Opening Books.
12. Expanded the Opening Book Format with more Header informations, and more Annotations
13. ...
More Options will to be define.

[Thomas Mayer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Thomas Mayer at 16 March 2003 02:19:18:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Denis Grafen at 15 March 2003 20:13:20:

Eins nur, Denis,
hast Du nicht vielleicht vergessen bei Deinen geplanten Verbesserungen auch nur irgend einen Punkt umzusetzen, den Du geplant hattest ??? Irgend einen ????
Glaub mir, ich weiß noch ein bisserl mehr als was ich veröffentlicht hab...
Kannst Du nicht mal einhalten ???? Ehrlich sein ???
Einfach sagen: Ich hab scheiße gebaut ! Ich hab ne Engine genommen, ein paar Texte geändert und neu compiliert und als meine ausgegeben ? Wie wärs mal mit der Wahrheit ????
Oder findest Du Dein Verhalten toll und normal ?
Gruß, Thomas

[Thomas Mayer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Thomas Mayer at 16 March 2003 02:27:27:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Thomas Mayer at 16 March 2003 02:19:18:

Only one point, Denis
haven't you forget every improvement, any point to improve that you planned ? Anyone ?????
believe me, I know a little more then I have published right now !
can't you stop now ? be honest ? At least once ???
Only say: "I made shit, sorry ! I took an engine, changes some output and compiled it again and say it is mine ?" how about that ??? how about the truth ???
Or do you think what you have done is great and usual ????
Greets, Thomas

[U.Tuerke]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: U.Tuerke at 16 March 2003 02:41:56:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Information (english translation) geschrieben von: / posted by: Thomas Mayer at 16 March 2003 02:27:27:

Only one point, Denis
haven't you forget every improvement, any point to improve that you planned ? Anyone ?????
believe me, I know a little more then I have published right now !
can't you stop now ? be honest ? At least once ???
Only say: "I made shit, sorry ! I took an engine, changes some output and compiled it again and say it is mine ?" how about that ??? how about the truth ???
Or do you think what you have done is great and usual ????
Greets, Thomas

Relax Thomas; this "project" is dead anyway.
Nobody will care.
Uli

[Samnotsowise]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Samnotsowise at 16 March 2003 05:40:40:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Information (english translation) geschrieben von: / posted by: U.Tuerke at 16 March 2003 02:41:56:

He will have to change more than the engine name to sneak into any tourneys ever
again. Like a name change and a face change operation.

[Johan Havegheer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Johan Havegheer at 16 March 2003 09:29:10:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Information (english translation) geschrieben von: / posted by: Thomas Mayer at 16 March 2003 02:27:27:

Only one point, Denis
haven't you forget every improvement, any point to improve that you planned ? Anyone ?????
believe me, I know a little more then I have published right now !
can't you stop now ? be honest ? At least once ???
Only say: "I made shit, sorry ! I took an engine, changes some output and compiled it again and say it is mine ?" how about that ??? how about the truth ???
Or do you think what you have done is great and usual ????
Greets, Thomas

I think he just stops after point 3. The other points seems to difficult for Denis.
Let's stop this please, he's just an ordinary cheater and liar.
Regards
Johan

[Justin]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Justin at 16 March 2003 13:01:15:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Denis Grafen at 15 March 2003 20:13:20:

Whats kinda ironic is when I asked Denis on Fritz 7 server if I could test his engine Deep 9, he told me that it was a new project and that he wanted to keep it private for the moment. Hmm, a bit strange as it was almost certainly a copy of the freeware program Pepito 1.59 or an earlier version :P

[mike schoonover]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: mike schoonover at 16 March 2003 14:29:45:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: Information geschrieben von: / posted by: Sune Fischer at 15 March 2003 22:36:55:

closure smosure,
it took me a year and a half just to figure out how
to get engines to run in winboard.
this denis comes along and jerks us all off.
i say cream the guy.no remorse.
regards
mike
p.s.,watch your email for spite viruses.