Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent)

[Kurt Utzinger]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Kurt Utzinger at 21 March 2004 23:39:52:

Fritz8-GUI
P3 650/32 MB hash
ponder=off
5moves.ctg
no learning
3-/4-men EGTB
Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6
time: 40'/40+40'/40+40'

Match Gothmog 0.4.7 vs Junior 7
Most surprisingly it stands 3.5-3.5 after 7 games.
Match will be continued.
Kurt

[Uri Blass]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Uri Blass at 22 March 2004 00:11:37:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Kurt Utzinger at 21 March 2004 23:39:52:

Fritz8-GUI
P3 650/32 MB hash
ponder=off
5moves.ctg
no learning
3-/4-men EGTB
Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6
time: 40'/40+40'/40+40'

Match Gothmog 0.4.7 vs Junior 7
Most surprisingly it stands 3.5-3.5 after 7 games.
Match will be continued.
Kurt

I think that Tord can sell the next version that will probably be again better and significantly better than Ruffian1.0.5.
The fact that Tord reveals his ideas does not change because the problem in programming is not ideas but correct implementation.
Uri

[Heinz van Kempen]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Heinz van Kempen at 22 March 2004 04:17:32:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Kurt Utzinger at 21 March 2004 23:39:52:

Fritz8-GUI
P3 650/32 MB hash
ponder=off
5moves.ctg
no learning
3-/4-men EGTB
Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6
time: 40'/40+40'/40+40'

Match Gothmog 0.4.7 vs Junior 7
Most surprisingly it stands 3.5-3.5 after 7 games.
Match will be continued.
Kurt

Hi Kurt,
yes, fine result for Gothmog. I am happy to see that.
Hmm, maybe I am still not totally awake. As a fan of longer time controls did you think about what a 40/40 match would mean on a modern computer? What do you think corresponds to that on a fast Athlon for example?
Hope you understand it correctly. I have nothing against tests on slow and old hardware, I only want to see what it really means, to have the proportions right, as you are constantly "running" from forum to forum telling all others more or less that Blitz games are a nonsense and that you don´t like them.
Thanks anyway for contributing amateur vs. professional and pure amateur games .
Best Regards
Heinz

[Heinz van Kempen]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Heinz van Kempen at 22 March 2004 06:11:56:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: about time control and hardware?! geschrieben von:/posted by: Heinz van Kempen at 22 March 2004 04:17:32:

Fritz8-GUI
P3 650/32 MB hash
ponder=off
5moves.ctg
no learning
3-/4-men EGTB
Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6
time: 40'/40+40'/40+40'

Match Gothmog 0.4.7 vs Junior 7
Most surprisingly it stands 3.5-3.5 after 7 games.
Match will be continued.
Kurt

Hi Kurt,
I just made a little test changing the speed of a computer via BIOS to 1200Mhz (I could not go down further). I also reduced to 32MB hash and then looked at kN/s reached in complex middle game positions with a lot of pieces on the board. I come to the disappoiting conclusion that those impressive looking 40/40 games on P3 650/32 would correspond more or less to a slightly better Blitz game on a standard Athlon 2600 with 64 MB hash.
Maybe you can convince me that I am not correct and tell me for a certain complicated position how many kN/s are shown for Junior and Gothmog or how much time is needed to reach a certain depth? Then you can go and tell other people with faster hardware that you do better things.
This is nothing personal, I am only fed up to see you critisizing other testers for their methods or time controls over and over again, for months and months...and I hope that we can live and test in peace now.
Best Regards
Heinz

[Uri Blass]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Uri Blass at 22 March 2004 10:42:34:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: a little test geschrieben von:/posted by: Heinz van Kempen at 22 March 2004 06:11:56:

Fritz8-GUI
P3 650/32 MB hash
ponder=off
5moves.ctg
no learning
3-/4-men EGTB
Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6
time: 40'/40+40'/40+40'

Match Gothmog 0.4.7 vs Junior 7
Most surprisingly it stands 3.5-3.5 after 7 games.
Match will be continued.
Kurt

Hi Kurt,
I just made a little test changing the speed of a computer via BIOS to 1200Mhz (I could not go down further). I also reduced to 32MB hash and then looked at kN/s reached in complex middle game positions with a lot of pieces on the board. I come to the disappoiting conclusion that those impressive looking 40/40 games on P3 650/32 would correspond more or less to a slightly better Blitz game on a standard Athlon 2600 with 64 MB hash.
Maybe you can convince me that I am not correct and tell me for a certain complicated position how many kN/s are shown for Junior and Gothmog or how much time is needed to reach a certain depth? Then you can go and tell other people with faster hardware that you do better things.
This is nothing personal, I am only fed up to see you critisizing other testers for their methods or time controls over and over again, for months and months...and I hope that we can live and test in peace now.
Best Regards
Heinz

If speed is proportional to mhz rhen
40/40 at 650 mhz is similiar to 10/40 at 2600 mhz and your 4+2 time control gives only 5:20 /40 moves and 6:40/80 moves.
compare
5:20/40+1:20/40.... and
10/40+10/40
There is some difference.
Uri

[Tord Romstad]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Tord Romstad at 22 March 2004 10:44:54:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Uri Blass at 22 March 2004 00:11:37:

Fritz8-GUI
P3 650/32 MB hash
ponder=off
5moves.ctg
no learning
3-/4-men EGTB
Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6
time: 40'/40+40'/40+40'

Match Gothmog 0.4.7 vs Junior 7
Most surprisingly it stands 3.5-3.5 after 7 games.
Match will be continued.
Kurt

I think that Tord can sell the next version that will probably be again better and significantly better than Ruffian1.0.5.

Uri, you know as well as I do that anything can happen in just 7 games, and
that Gothmog is still nowhere near Junior.
I promise that my next version will still be much weaker than Ruffian, that the
style will stay as wild and unsound as it is now, and that there will never be a
commercial version of my engine for any desktop computer.
Tord

[Heinz van Kempen]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Heinz van Kempen at 22 March 2004 10:47:55:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: a little test geschrieben von:/posted by: Uri Blass at 22 March 2004 10:42:34:

If speed is proportional to mhz rhen
40/40 at 650 mhz is similiar to 10/40 at 2600 mhz and your 4+2 time control gives only 5:20 /40 moves and 6:40/80 moves.
compare
5:20/40+1:20/40.... and
10/40+10/40
There is some difference.
Uri

Hello Uri,
yes, but Kurt usually considers even games with 15m + 5s as Blitz and possibly this definition is right. Maybe I was a bit harsh in my comments, but it is not all what it seems and I hope that it is okay that I point this out only one time.
Best Regards
Heinz

[Roger Brown]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Roger Brown at 22 March 2004 11:12:58:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Tord Romstad at 22 March 2004 10:44:54:

I promise that my next version will still be much weaker than Ruffian, that the style will stay as wild and unsound as it is now, and that there will never be a commercial version of my engine for any desktop computer.
Tord

Hello Tord,
Please do not do this. Uri will post that the possibility of a commercial engine for pocket computers exists.
Unless that was your intention?

Later.

[Tord Romstad]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Tord Romstad at 22 March 2004 11:18:12:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Roger Brown at 22 March 2004 11:12:58:

I promise that my next version will still be much weaker than Ruffian, that the style will stay as wild and unsound as it is now, and that there will never be a commercial version of my engine for any desktop computer.
Tord

Hello Tord,
Please do not do this. Uri will post that the possibility of a commercial engine for pocket computers exists.
Unless that was your intention?

Yes, that was precisely my intention.
The PalmOS version of my engine will definitely be completely free. But there
is a tiny possibility that I would agree if somebody tried to hire me to write
a chess engine for some other type of handheld device. Of course, this is all
very hypothetical and unlikely.
Tord

[Uri Blass]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Uri Blass at 22 March 2004 11:57:53:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Tord Romstad at 22 March 2004 10:44:54:

Fritz8-GUI
P3 650/32 MB hash
ponder=off
5moves.ctg
no learning
3-/4-men EGTB
Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6
time: 40'/40+40'/40+40'

Match Gothmog 0.4.7 vs Junior 7
Most surprisingly it stands 3.5-3.5 after 7 games.
Match will be continued.
Kurt

I think that Tord can sell the next version that will probably be again better and significantly better than Ruffian1.0.5.

Uri, you know as well as I do that anything can happen in just 7 games, and
that Gothmog is still nowhere near Junior.
I promise that my next version will still be much weaker than Ruffian, that the
style will stay as wild and unsound as it is now, and that there will never be a
commercial version of my engine for any desktop computer.
Tord

I do not know it.
I am not sure about it.
It seems that you already got near the level of Ruffian based on the results.
This is not only the 3.5-3.5 against Junior but also the 6.5-3.5 against Comet of a weaker version.
I see no reason for you not to sell your program if it is strong enough.
Uri

[Sune Fischer]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Sune Fischer at 22 March 2004 12:41:03:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Uri Blass at 22 March 2004 11:57:53:

I think that Tord can sell the next version that will probably be again better and significantly better than Ruffian1.0.5.

Uri, you know as well as I do that anything can happen in just 7 games, and
that Gothmog is still nowhere near Junior.
I promise that my next version will still be much weaker than Ruffian, that the
style will stay as wild and unsound as it is now, and that there will never be a
commercial version of my engine for any desktop computer.
Tord

I do not know it.
I am not sure about it.
It seems that you already got near the level of Ruffian based on the results.
This is not only the 3.5-3.5 against Junior but also the 6.5-3.5 against Comet of a weaker version.
I see no reason for you not to sell your program if it is strong enough.
Uri

Yes there has been some really good results.
I wish somebody would play 200-300 games in a serious gauntlet so we could get
a more precise reading.
All these short matches does not fully convince me, but I admit that a certain
very very unpleasent picture is starting to take form.

Nooo, the Force is strong with Tord, we don't want to lose another powerful
Jedi Knight to the dark side.
Besides once they go commercial they stop posting anything interesting,
haven't you noticed?
-S.

[Uri Blass]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Uri Blass at 22 March 2004 13:16:39:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Sune Fischer at 22 March 2004 12:41:03:

I think that Tord can sell the next version that will probably be again better and significantly better than Ruffian1.0.5.

Uri, you know as well as I do that anything can happen in just 7 games, and
that Gothmog is still nowhere near Junior.
I promise that my next version will still be much weaker than Ruffian, that the
style will stay as wild and unsound as it is now, and that there will never be a
commercial version of my engine for any desktop computer.
Tord

I do not know it.
I am not sure about it.
It seems that you already got near the level of Ruffian based on the results.
This is not only the 3.5-3.5 against Junior but also the 6.5-3.5 against Comet of a weaker version.
I see no reason for you not to sell your program if it is strong enough.
Uri

Yes there has been some really good results.
I wish somebody would play 200-300 games in a serious gauntlet so we could get
a more precise reading.
All these short matches does not fully convince me, but I admit that a certain
very very unpleasent picture is starting to take form.

Nooo, the Force is strong with Tord, we don't want to lose another powerful
Jedi Knight to the dark side.
Besides once they go commercial they stop posting anything interesting,
haven't you noticed?
-S.

No
I think that there is no contradiction between talking about the secrets of the program and going commercial.
It seems that a good programmer like Tord can safely talk about his secrets with no danger that other people will become better than him.
I believe that it is not the case for the programmers of the commercial programs
who are inferior programmers or have lack self confidence so they need to keep secrets.
Uri

[Tord Romstad]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Tord Romstad at 22 March 2004 14:19:34:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Sune Fischer at 22 March 2004 12:41:03:

I think that Tord can sell the next version that will probably be again better and significantly better than Ruffian1.0.5.

Uri, you know as well as I do that anything can happen in just 7 games, and
that Gothmog is still nowhere near Junior.
I promise that my next version will still be much weaker than Ruffian, that the
style will stay as wild and unsound as it is now, and that there will never be a
commercial version of my engine for any desktop computer.
Tord

I do not know it.
I am not sure about it.
It seems that you already got near the level of Ruffian based on the results.
This is not only the 3.5-3.5 against Junior but also the 6.5-3.5 against Comet of a weaker version.
I see no reason for you not to sell your program if it is strong enough.
Uri

Yes there has been some really good results.
I wish somebody would play 200-300 games in a serious gauntlet so we could get
a more precise reading.
All these short matches does not fully convince me, but I admit that a certain
very very unpleasent picture is starting to take form.

Nooo, the Force is strong with Tord, we don't want to lose another powerful
Jedi Knight to the dark side.
Besides once they go commercial they stop posting anything interesting,
haven't you noticed?

No, it wasn't a weaker version. Both matches were played by Gothmog 0.4.7.
The only difference was that the match against Comet was played with
selectivity=4, while the match against Junior is played with the possibly
better selectivity=6.
And it's still only 17 games, nothing to be excited about.
I have done that myself, of course. Gothmog is clearly stronger than
Arasan and Phalanx, but clearly weaker than Yace and Pepito. In other
words, it is probably stronger than the average amateur engine, but not
close to the best.
Not owning a TV has many benefits, but it also means that I never understand
Star Trek references (but at least I have learned to recognize them).
I can't promise that I will ever post anything interesting, but at least
I'll try.
Tord

[Sune Fischer]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Sune Fischer at 22 March 2004 14:45:25:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Tord Romstad at 22 March 2004 14:19:34:

I wish somebody would play 200-300 games in a serious gauntlet so we could get
a more precise reading.
All these short matches does not fully convince me, but I admit that a certain
very very unpleasent picture is starting to take form.

I see no reason for you not to sell your program if it is strong enough.
Uri

Nooo, the Force is strong with Tord, we don't want to lose another powerful
Jedi Knight to the dark side.
Besides once they go commercial they stop posting anything interesting,
haven't you noticed?

I have done that myself, of course. Gothmog is clearly stronger than
Arasan and Phalanx, but clearly weaker than Yace and Pepito. In other
words, it is probably stronger than the average amateur engine, but not
close to the best.
Not owning a TV has many benefits, but it also means that I never understand
Star Trek references (but at least I have learned to recognize them).
I can't promise that I will ever post anything interesting, but at least
I'll try.
Tord

I didn't think the difference between Pepito and Arasan was that great,
e.g. http://wbec-ridderkerk.nl/html/his6thedition.html
where Pepito got 34/68 and Arasan got 28/68.
It might be that Gothmog just handles Arasan better than Pepito, exploits a
certain weakness or has a special style that works relative better against Arasan.
"Return of the Jedi" was on TV here a few days a go, I was glued to the screen.
I think it's always interesting when an author talks about experiments,
heuristics or ideas. You have been known to do that
-S.

[Uri Blass]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Uri Blass at 22 March 2004 15:03:23:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Tord Romstad at 22 March 2004 14:19:34:

I think that Tord can sell the next version that will probably be again better and significantly better than Ruffian1.0.5.

Uri, you know as well as I do that anything can happen in just 7 games, and
that Gothmog is still nowhere near Junior.
I promise that my next version will still be much weaker than Ruffian, that the
style will stay as wild and unsound as it is now, and that there will never be a
commercial version of my engine for any desktop computer.
Tord

I do not know it.
I am not sure about it.
It seems that you already got near the level of Ruffian based on the results.
This is not only the 3.5-3.5 against Junior but also the 6.5-3.5 against Comet of a weaker version.

Yes there has been some really good results.
I wish somebody would play 200-300 games in a serious gauntlet so we could get
a more precise reading.

No, it wasn't a weaker version. Both matches were played by Gothmog 0.4.7.
The only difference was that the match against Comet was played with
selectivity=4, while the match against Junior is played with the possibly
better selectivity=6.
And it's still only 17 games, nothing to be excited about.
I have done that myself, of course. Gothmog is clearly stronger than
Arasan and Phalanx, but clearly weaker than Yace and Pepito.
words, it is probably stronger than the average amateur engine, but not
close to the best.

It is not clearly weaker than them based on your own tests when it even beated yace in match of 50 games.
http://f11.parsimony.net/forum16635/messages/63709.htm

In other

No it is clearly close to the best even at blitz and it may be even better at longer time control.
I find it surprising that you do not care about speed optimizations when you say that you are more interested in slow hardware like palm.
I think that speed optimization is mainly important for slow hardware
when with fast hardware better search is more important.
Uri

[Tord Romstad]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Tord Romstad at 22 March 2004 17:14:07:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Uri Blass at 22 March 2004 15:03:23:

I wish somebody would play 200-300 games in a serious gauntlet so we could get
a more precise reading.

I have done that myself, of course. Gothmog is clearly stronger than
Arasan and Phalanx, but clearly weaker than Yace and Pepito.
In other
words, it is probably stronger than the average amateur engine, but not
close to the best.

It is not clearly weaker than them based on your own tests when it even beated yace in match of 50 games.
http://f11.parsimony.net/forum16635/messages/63709.htm

No it is clearly close to the best even at blitz and it may be even better at longer time control.
I find it surprising that you do not care about speed optimizations when you say that you are more interested in slow hardware like palm.
I think that speed optimization is mainly important for slow hardware
when with fast hardware better search is more important.

A narrow victory in one single match, yes. But the clear majority of my data
points towards Yace still being at least 50-100 points stronger (possibly more).
Heinz' Nunn ratings also support this estimate.
I wouldn't say that being at least 200 points weaker than Ruffian 1.05 can
be regarded as "close to the best" at blitz, and I have no evidence that my
engine is better at long time controls.
This is probably right, but as long as there are many more obvious areas of
improvement, I think it is better to wait with optimizations.
A better question is why I still use my MTD(f) search, which obviously
wouldn't work well without big hash tables.
Tord

[Kurt Utzinger]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Kurt Utzinger at 22 March 2004 18:53:04:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: a little test geschrieben von:/posted by: Heinz van Kempen at 22 March 2004 06:11:56:

Fritz8-GUI
P3 650/32 MB hash
ponder=off
5moves.ctg
no learning
3-/4-men EGTB
Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6
time: 40'/40+40'/40+40'

Match Gothmog 0.4.7 vs Junior 7
Most surprisingly it stands 3.5-3.5 after 7 games.
Match will be continued.
Kurt

Hi Kurt,
I just made a little test changing the speed of a computer via BIOS to 1200Mhz (I could not go down further). I also reduced to 32MB hash and then looked at kN/s reached in complex middle game positions with a lot of pieces on the board. I come to the disappoiting conclusion that those impressive looking 40/40 games on P3 650/32 would correspond more or less to a slightly better Blitz game on a standard Athlon 2600 with 64 MB hash.
Maybe you can convince me that I am not correct and tell me for a certain complicated position how many kN/s are shown for Junior and Gothmog or how much time is needed to reach a certain depth? Then you can go and tell other people with faster hardware that you do better things.
This is nothing personal, I am only fed up to see you critisizing other testers for their methods or time controls over and over again, for months and months...and I hope that we can live and test in peace now.
Best Regards
Heinz

Hi Heinz
There must be a grave misunderstanding about my thinking about the
worth of blitz games. The fact that I do not like this time control
does not necessarily mean that I consider this kind of chess to be
meaningless. If you do understand German (hopefully better than I
do English) then please have a look at
http://f23.parsimony.net/forum50826/messages/95067.htm where I
explained my point of view to this theme.
Kind regards
Kurt

[Uri Blass]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Uri Blass at 22 March 2004 18:55:23:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Tord Romstad at 22 March 2004 17:14:07:

I wish somebody would play 200-300 games in a serious gauntlet so we could get
a more precise reading.

I have done that myself, of course. Gothmog is clearly stronger than
Arasan and Phalanx, but clearly weaker than Yace and Pepito.
In other
words, it is probably stronger than the average amateur engine, but not
close to the best.

It is not clearly weaker than them based on your own tests when it even beated yace in match of 50 games.
http://f11.parsimony.net/forum16635/messages/63709.htm

No it is clearly close to the best even at blitz and it may be even better at longer time control.

A narrow victory in one single match, yes. But the clear majority of my data
points towards Yace still being at least 50-100 points stronger (possibly more).
Heinz' Nunn ratings also support this estimate.
I wouldn't say that being at least 200 points weaker than Ruffian 1.05 can
be regarded as "close to the best" at blitz, and I have no evidence that my
engine is better at long time controls.

Heinz's nunn ratings is based on the nunn positions and it is possible that gothmog is better in other positions.

I am not sure about the at least 200 elo difference.
Maybe it does not play well in games with increasement and maybe with different hardware it is smaller difference.
If you say that there are many obvious areas for improvement except speed then it will probably have no problem to get even more than 200 elo in the next year.
Uri

[Heinz van Kempen]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Heinz van Kempen at 22 March 2004 19:23:59:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: a little test geschrieben von:/posted by: Kurt Utzinger at 22 March 2004 18:53:04:

Fritz8-GUI
P3 650/32 MB hash
ponder=off
5moves.ctg
no learning
3-/4-men EGTB
Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6
time: 40'/40+40'/40+40'

Match Gothmog 0.4.7 vs Junior 7
Most surprisingly it stands 3.5-3.5 after 7 games.
Match will be continued.
Kurt

Hi Kurt,
I just made a little test changing the speed of a computer via BIOS to 1200Mhz (I could not go down further). I also reduced to 32MB hash and then looked at kN/s reached in complex middle game positions with a lot of pieces on the board. I come to the disappoiting conclusion that those impressive looking 40/40 games on P3 650/32 would correspond more or less to a slightly better Blitz game on a standard Athlon 2600 with 64 MB hash.
Maybe you can convince me that I am not correct and tell me for a certain complicated position how many kN/s are shown for Junior and Gothmog or how much time is needed to reach a certain depth? Then you can go and tell other people with faster hardware that you do better things.
This is nothing personal, I am only fed up to see you critisizing other testers for their methods or time controls over and over again, for months and months...and I hope that we can live and test in peace now.
Best Regards
Heinz

Hi Heinz
There must be a grave misunderstanding about my thinking about the
worth of blitz games. The fact that I do not like this time control
does not necessarily mean that I consider this kind of chess to be
meaningless. If you do understand German (hopefully better than I
do English) then please have a look at
http://f23.parsimony.net/forum50826/messages/95067.htm where I
explained my point of view to this theme.
Kind regards
Kurt

Hi Kurt,
yes I see this is a new message and I also told you before that I like your tests and your site and I think slow hardware is valuable, too, because a lot of people are still using it. If I would own an older computer I think I would use it only and just for long tournament games to achieve a decent level of play.
It is surely also my own fault that I was blinded by looking only on time controls and not on hardware at first and got disenchanted. So I think we can agree that we ought to consider all this and then have a better estimation of the level.
In no way it is my intention to criticize anyone, not you, not anyone else who has fun with testing like I have. I only was a bit disturbed by your many postings to tests of others getting from your words the impression that you wanted to insinue that all their work should be worth less. And I want also repeat that I agree to those who claim that there are considerable differences for some comparing shorter and longer time controls. I even have separate rating lists for those with many games, but not Nunn matches. And it is more pleasure to watch cosily a longer game and think for your own what you would do and then to see that often the programs find better moves and sometimes not understanding what they do . So I will surely play more games with longer time controls soon (apart from the pyramid), when I have enough Blitz games for all.
Best Regards
Heinz

[Mogens Larsen]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Mogens Larsen at 22 March 2004 20:59:36:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: Gothmog 0.4.7 sel=6 (a tough opponent) geschrieben von:/posted by: Sune Fischer at 22 March 2004 14:45:25:

Not owning a TV has many benefits, but it also means that I never understand
Star Trek references (but at least I have learned to recognize them).

"Return of the Jedi" was on TV here a few days a go, I was glued to the screen.

Mistaking "Star Trek" and "Star Wars" is virtually unforgivable. People have been killed for less.
But in the interest of peaceful coexistance, the confusion will be labelled as "Norwegian humor" .
Regards,
Mogens