The truth about Deep - 9

[U.Tuerke]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: U.Tuerke at 14 March 2003 20:30:54:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: The truth about Deep - 9 geschrieben von: / posted by: Thomas Mayer at 14 March 2003 18:51:49:

Hi Uli,

If Dennis had changed only a few parameters slightly, the proof would become
much more difficult. It seems, he didn't dare to. May be, he had not
understood the architecture of Pepito.

which is really not easy, the Pepito source is fully in spanish... when you have no idea about that language you have nearly no chance to understand anything there... Anyway, since Crafty-clones are out at the moment, Pepito seems to get the role of the mostly cloned engine... What a shame...
Greets, Thomas

Do you suspect that there may be other cases ?

[MIchael]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: MIchael at 14 March 2003 20:57:45:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: The truth about Deep - 9 geschrieben von: / posted by: Thomas Mayer at 14 March 2003 18:31:25:

There are probably some other things you could look at id you have the .exe
files. Can someone please put it on a site somewhere so we can examine the fraud?
There are better ways to compare 2 .exe files to see if they are clones. This is just a quicky.
Do an objdump if you can ie. cygwin and compare.
For example an Object dump of pepito (Striped out left most column and sort unique). There are some literal strings especially some chess notation. Hummm
Dan Corbit's name is listed in Pepito.exe. He cloned Dan Corbit? Just joking.
I love Pepito even more so now. A disassembled version could be used also if
you could correctly guess the compiler flags that were used.
There are probably some more standard methods to do this. An programmers might
want to start adding some sort of fingerprint to their code. It can even be done
if the source is published if done cleverly. Sheesh the nerve of this fraud
taking a freeware program and trying to sell it. e.g. SCO vs IBM over Linux when
UNIX had a lot of free contributers.
objdump -s pepito|awk '{print $6}'|sort -u >pepito.objs.txt 2>&1
Note that many programs might have common sections since many are probrobably
descendents of open source programs like gnuchess and crafty (hehe and pepito)
If the "person" who cloned Pepito was lazy there should be many simularities.
I compared pepito to crafty and found no distinguishing simularities, but I
only looked about 5 minutes. (Longer than I last in most chess games against
a computer).

Examples from pepito.objs.txt

!!
!(__null
!.!..U..M.....E.
!.!..U..M..U..M.
!.".#.$.%.&.'.(.
!...)...1...9...
!....
%%).
%%)...Futility
%%...file%d.tmp.
%)...BranchingFa
%...-...5...=...
%......
I wonder if Deep9 has this still included?
(.p..~.[.{.\.........@>......
FEN
FL.F$.v
FX.F\u/.=.0...u-
FaPhT/...{......
Faltan
First_success:
G
G(.E..G,....E...
G,t..E....'.....
I...x...A.......
I.lW6w{.6...t3o(
ID:
IGUOUS.AVOID
INDEX
Illegal
Internal
Introduzca
Invalid
J......Li.......

NK.M....Yf..qJy.
Nj...42.l.......
Nodes
Not
Null-moves:
Numero
O-O.O-O-O.%c.%c%
O.#_.....u..E..#
O.....0.....(...
O.....u..E..E...
O...j..]........
O...}...t&......
O..U..}..G......
O8#_

[Michael]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Michael at 14 March 2003 21:02:49:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: The truth about Deep - 9 geschrieben von: / posted by: Omid David at 14 March 2003 18:56:21:

Ah yes. strings.exe works better than the little objdump trick I posted.

Hi,
just take a look here: http://www.quarkchess.de/html/deep9_1.html
Greets, Thomas
Especially how he represents black pieces. With a “*” in front of them. Do
you know any other engine which is doing that?

What you've written is pretty much unassailable. You can also use the tool "strings.exe" which extracts all the strings from a binary. Run it on both Pepito and Deep and you will get the same strings.
P.S. just one point; you've written:
Yes! Crafty, Genesis, just to name a few. Do you have a better suggestion?

[Dann Corbit]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Dann Corbit at 14 March 2003 21:08:05:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: The truth about Deep - 9 geschrieben von: / posted by: U.Tuerke at 14 March 2003 20:30:54:

Hi Uli,

If Dennis had changed only a few parameters slightly, the proof would become
much more difficult. It seems, he didn't dare to. May be, he had not
understood the architecture of Pepito.

which is really not easy, the Pepito source is fully in spanish... when you have no idea about that language you have nearly no chance to understand anything there... Anyway, since Crafty-clones are out at the moment, Pepito seems to get the role of the mostly cloned engine... What a shame...
Greets, Thomas

Do you suspect that there may be other cases ?

He is probably referring to Sibony


my ftp site

[Peter Fendrich]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Peter Fendrich at 14 March 2003 21:35:49:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: First one on the left... geschrieben von: / posted by: S. Voigt at 14 March 2003 19:48:06:

We know that the program is a fraud but we have no idea of the mans identity.
It's possibile someone innocent will be hurted...
To hell with Deep and let's continue with what we are here for. Playing, competing, discussing and have some fun!
/Peter

Hi,
just take a look here: http://www.quarkchess.de/html/deep9_1.html
Greets, Thomas

Thanks, Thomas.
This proves everything.
I really enjoyed the attempts of the want-to-be chess author to eliminate
traces of Pepito by renaming variables and trying to change node count.
Output in Spanish and use of spanish variables by a German is simply nice .
/Matthias.

Hihi, man can you believe this??
What a ferkin' loser!
I don't know whether to laugh or cry, I think I will laugh, this guy is just too stupid for me.
-S.

I do not know
I can think of the possibility that the guy simply hates the real Denis Grafen and did all of this only to give the real Denis Grafen a bad name.
Is there a proof for the identity of the guy.
Uri

I don't know what his real name is, but I'm talking about that guy in question who cloned Pepito.
He is probably not 33 as stated, but really some 11 year old trying to play a trick on us.
If he is smart enough (highly questionable though, given the facts up until now) he used an alias.
I don't think it matters much anyway, I doubt he is going to jail for this.
-S.

From:http://www.iecg.info/members/2002/2002_dec.htm
DENIS GRAFEN, (GER), 2200, lives in NRW, Germany where he is a Senior System Engineer. He is 33 years old and he has played chess since he was eight. His father taught him how to play and now he has been in a local chess club for eight years. He wants “to play chess with people from all over the world.” In his “leisure time” he does “Taekwondo,” a Korean martial art. His current ELO is 2393 and his DWZ is 2373.
Why not write a nice message to his guestbook, which is still online
http://www.dg-tkd.webhop.net/
To the picture: Is this the guy?:
1st one on the left, from:
...
The link to the photo has been removed by me.
Volker