How to create Fritz native engine?

[Igor Korshunov]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Igor Korshunov at 13 March 2003 05:41:47:

Hi there!
I know some engines that exist as Fritz native also. This is Comet, Crafty, List and EXchess.
How I can convert my own engine to Fritz native?
Can somebody give me useful hints?
Best wishes,
Igor

[Thomas Mayer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Thomas Mayer at 13 March 2003 06:12:50:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: How to create Fritz native engine? geschrieben von: / posted by: Igor Korshunov at 13 March 2003 05:41:47:

Hi Igor,

I know some engines that exist as Fritz native also. This is Comet, Crafty,
List and EXchess.
How I can convert my own engine to Fritz native?

Afaik the natives of Crafty and EXChess are built from ChessBase themself... The others (I know about Gromit/Anaconda, List, Comet, Patzer, Ikarus, Phalanx, Goliath, InMiChess) have the special permission by ChessBase and get the specification of the interface - which is afaik different for every engine which means that the interface for Fritz is different to that from Junior etc. - maybe the interfaces of the amateurs are all similar, I don't know). Definitely there is no description how to create a native, it is not public. But who cares: Right now, we have the UCI interface which works quite well (after thousends of uci.dll's) - still not all issues are solved by Mathias Feist, but they are working on it... So it should be no real problem to connect to the ChessBase GUI via UCI... Anyway: PLEASE hold the winboard compatibility - I would not like to see WildCat going away... I feel also quite uncomfortable to have lost Gromit/Anaconda and List for the winboard world... Thanks...
Greets, Thomas

[Igor Korshunov]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Igor Korshunov at 13 March 2003 09:00:15:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: How to create Fritz native engine? geschrieben von: / posted by: Thomas Mayer at 13 March 2003 06:12:50:

Hi Igor,

I know some engines that exist as Fritz native also. This is Comet, Crafty,
List and EXchess.
How I can convert my own engine to Fritz native?

Afaik the natives of Crafty and EXChess are built from ChessBase themself... The others (I know about Gromit/Anaconda, List, Comet, Patzer, Ikarus, Phalanx, Goliath, InMiChess) have the special permission by ChessBase and get the specification of the interface - which is afaik different for every engine which means that the interface for Fritz is different to that from Junior etc. - maybe the interfaces of the amateurs are all similar, I don't know). Definitely there is no description how to create a native, it is not public. But who cares: Right now, we have the UCI interface which works quite well (after thousends of uci.dll's) - still not all issues are solved by Mathias Feist, but they are working on it... So it should be no real problem to connect to the ChessBase GUI via UCI... Anyway: PLEASE hold the winboard compatibility - I would not like to see WildCat going away... I feel also quite uncomfortable to have lost Gromit/Anaconda and List for the winboard world... Thanks...
Greets, Thomas

Hi Thomas!
I have no intention to make WildCat as Chessbase native engine.
I only want to know how to do it!
Xboard is the best protocol!
I missing Fritz2WB adapter!
Here is not problem for Chessbase. I have no intention to make it public, if I can do such adapter.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Frank Quisinsky at 13 March 2003 09:28:52:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: How to create Fritz native engine? geschrieben von: / posted by: Thomas Mayer at 13 March 2003 06:12:50:

Hi Igor,

I know some engines that exist as Fritz native also. This is Comet, Crafty,
List and EXchess.
How I can convert my own engine to Fritz native?

Afaik the natives of Crafty and EXChess are built from ChessBase themself... The others (I know about Gromit/Anaconda, List, Comet, Patzer, Ikarus, Phalanx, Goliath, InMiChess) have the special permission by ChessBase and get the specification of the interface - which is afaik different for every engine which means that the interface for Fritz is different to that from Junior etc. - maybe the interfaces of the amateurs are all similar, I don't know). Definitely there is no description how to create a native, it is not public. But who cares: Right now, we have the UCI interface which works quite well (after thousends of uci.dll's) - still not all issues are solved by Mathias Feist, but they are working on it... So it should be no real problem to connect to the ChessBase GUI via UCI... Anyway: PLEASE hold the winboard compatibility - I would not like to see WildCat going away... I feel also quite uncomfortable to have lost Gromit/Anaconda and List for the winboard world... Thanks...
Greets, Thomas

Hi Thomas,
a hand full programmers ...
Maybe the programmers where like to play Eng-Eng matches against the 6 non WB/UCI ChessBase native engines.
Only the engines:
1. Fritz
2. Junior
3. Hiarcs
4. ChessTiger
5. Ikarus
6. Doctor
- Anaconda (newer versions from Gromit, now Anaconda)
- List (newer versions)
are not compatible to standard protocols WB / UCI.
8 from over 180 !!
Maybe next year 6 or 10 (I don't know).
Every programmer can create an UCI engine to play against this group of 6 engines.
Best
Frank

[Thomas Mayer]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Thomas Mayer at 13 March 2003 09:56:35:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: How to create Fritz native engine? geschrieben von: / posted by: Igor Korshunov at 13 March 2003 09:00:15:

Hi Igor,

I have no intention to make WildCat as Chessbase native engine.
I only want to know how to do it!
Xboard is the best protocol!
I missing Fritz2WB adapter!
Here is not problem for Chessbase. I have no intention to make it public, if
I can do such adapter.

puh, I am happy now...
well... I think the strict specification of UCI is something WinBoard can learn from. I hope that a WinBoard Protocol Version III will be specified once and that it will be as well and strictly specified then UCI... The best thing about winboard is, that it does not press the engine in any scheme... Freedom for the engine...
Publish such a tool might be also out of law... -> Anyway I doubt that it could be done so easy - as I told you, according to the information I got from Mathias Feist every ChessBase engine has more or less it's own interface... there might be a way to reengineer that, but it's not something I would like to see - better would be when those ChessBase engines convert once to UCI or... hehe... WinBoard... ))
Greets, Thomas

[Igor Korshunov]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Igor Korshunov at 13 March 2003 10:32:08:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: How to create Fritz native engine? geschrieben von: / posted by: Thomas Mayer at 13 March 2003 09:56:35:

Publish such a tool might be also out of law... -> Anyway I doubt that it could be done so easy - as I told you, according to the information I got from Mathias Feist every ChessBase engine has more or less it's own interface... there might be a way to reengineer that, but it's not something I would like to see - better would be when those ChessBase engines convert once to UCI or... hehe... WinBoard... ))

I don't believe that this can happen
BTW, any chessbase GUI support almost all Fritz native engines, so here must not be a problem.

[Chris]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Chris at 13 March 2003 10:56:13:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: How to create Fritz native engine? geschrieben von: / posted by: Frank Quisinsky at 13 March 2003 09:28:52:

Hi Igor,

I know some engines that exist as Fritz native also. This is Comet, Crafty,
List and EXchess.
How I can convert my own engine to Fritz native?

Afaik the natives of Crafty and EXChess are built from ChessBase themself... The others (I know about Gromit/Anaconda, List, Comet, Patzer, Ikarus, Phalanx, Goliath, InMiChess) have the special permission by ChessBase and get the specification of the interface - which is afaik different for every engine which means that the interface for Fritz is different to that from Junior etc. - maybe the interfaces of the amateurs are all similar, I don't know). Definitely there is no description how to create a native, it is not public. But who cares: Right now, we have the UCI interface which works quite well (after thousends of uci.dll's) - still not all issues are solved by Mathias Feist, but they are working on it... So it should be no real problem to connect to the ChessBase GUI via UCI... Anyway: PLEASE hold the winboard compatibility - I would not like to see WildCat going away... I feel also quite uncomfortable to have lost Gromit/Anaconda and List for the winboard world... Thanks...
Greets, Thomas

Hi Thomas,
a hand full programmers ...
Maybe the programmers where like to play Eng-Eng matches against the 6 non WB/UCI ChessBase native engines.
Only the engines:
1. Fritz
2. Junior
3. Hiarcs
4. ChessTiger
5. Ikarus
6. Doctor
- Anaconda (newer versions from Gromit, now Anaconda)
- List (newer versions)
are not compatible to standard protocols WB / UCI.
8 from over 180 !!

But these are the best ones!! Doing computerchess without these engs is like soccers champions league without Madrid, Munich, Manchester, Milano, ...
The other possibility for real engine freaks is using natives, ucis und wbs all together under fritz! So far the best one.

[Thomas Lagershausen]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Thomas Lagershausen at 13 March 2003 11:16:36:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: How to create Fritz native engine? geschrieben von: / posted by: Chris at 13 March 2003 10:56:13:

Hi Igor,

I know some engines that exist as Fritz native also. This is Comet, Crafty,
List and EXchess.
How I can convert my own engine to Fritz native?

Afaik the natives of Crafty and EXChess are built from ChessBase themself... The others (I know about Gromit/Anaconda, List, Comet, Patzer, Ikarus, Phalanx, Goliath, InMiChess) have the special permission by ChessBase and get the specification of the interface - which is afaik different for every engine which means that the interface for Fritz is different to that from Junior etc. - maybe the interfaces of the amateurs are all similar, I don't know). Definitely there is no description how to create a native, it is not public. But who cares: Right now, we have the UCI interface which works quite well (after thousends of uci.dll's) - still not all issues are solved by Mathias Feist, but they are working on it... So it should be no real problem to connect to the ChessBase GUI via UCI... Anyway: PLEASE hold the winboard compatibility - I would not like to see WildCat going away... I feel also quite uncomfortable to have lost Gromit/Anaconda and List for the winboard world... Thanks...
Greets, Thomas

Hi Thomas,
a hand full programmers ...
Maybe the programmers where like to play Eng-Eng matches against the 6 non WB/UCI ChessBase native engines.
Only the engines:
1. Fritz
2. Junior
3. Hiarcs
4. ChessTiger
5. Ikarus
6. Doctor
- Anaconda (newer versions from Gromit, now Anaconda)
- List (newer versions)
are not compatible to standard protocols WB / UCI.
8 from over 180 !!

But these are the best ones!! Doing computerchess without these engs is like soccers champions league without Madrid, Munich, Manchester, Milano, ...
The other possibility for real engine freaks is using natives, ucis und wbs all together under fritz! So far the best one.

i don´t believe these are the best.Equal are CM9000SKR, Shredder 7 UCI, Rebel 12, Tiger 15.0 (CA).
As strong as Ananconda and List are SmarThink 16B (WB), Delfi 4.1 (WB),Pepito 1.59 (UCI+WB)etc.
So, we don´t need really this uncompatible engines for Arena.

Not for my taste, too much disneyworld like.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Frank Quisinsky at 13 March 2003 11:17:12:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: How to create Fritz native engine? geschrieben von: / posted by: Chris at 13 March 2003 10:56:13:

Hi Igor,

I know some engines that exist as Fritz native also. This is Comet, Crafty,
List and EXchess.
How I can convert my own engine to Fritz native?

Afaik the natives of Crafty and EXChess are built from ChessBase themself... The others (I know about Gromit/Anaconda, List, Comet, Patzer, Ikarus, Phalanx, Goliath, InMiChess) have the special permission by ChessBase and get the specification of the interface - which is afaik different for every engine which means that the interface for Fritz is different to that from Junior etc. - maybe the interfaces of the amateurs are all similar, I don't know). Definitely there is no description how to create a native, it is not public. But who cares: Right now, we have the UCI interface which works quite well (after thousends of uci.dll's) - still not all issues are solved by Mathias Feist, but they are working on it... So it should be no real problem to connect to the ChessBase GUI via UCI... Anyway: PLEASE hold the winboard compatibility - I would not like to see WildCat going away... I feel also quite uncomfortable to have lost Gromit/Anaconda and List for the winboard world... Thanks...
Greets, Thomas

Hi Thomas,
a hand full programmers ...
Maybe the programmers where like to play Eng-Eng matches against the 6 non WB/UCI ChessBase native engines.
Only the engines:
1. Fritz
2. Junior
3. Hiarcs
4. ChessTiger
5. Ikarus
6. Doctor
- Anaconda (newer versions from Gromit, now Anaconda)
- List (newer versions)
are not compatible to standard protocols WB / UCI.
8 from over 180 !!

But these are the best ones!! Doing computerchess without these engs is like soccers champions league without Madrid, Munich, Manchester, Milano, ...
The other possibility for real engine freaks is using natives, ucis und wbs all together under fritz! So far the best one.

Hi,
you mean Ikarus or Doctor are "the best ones"
OK, I know what you mean ...
You mean: Fritz, Junior, Chess Tiger and Hiarcs!
But we have also:
UCI Shredder 7.04
UCI Gandalf 6 (comming soon, maybe the same playing level compare Fritz and Shredder)
WB Nimzo
WB The King
and RUFFIAN ...
Enough programs over 2.600 ELO for WB and UCI !!
And I am sure more strong WB / UCI engines comming soon (with years the amateurs are stronger and stronger).
Fritz is not the best GUI for the 179 WinBoard engines.
You need an adapter and the engines works not to 100%.
So the best GUI for testing the most engines are not the ChessBase GUIs.
Sorry ...
For me the best GUI for testing UCI against WB and the most 1:1 compatiblity is Arena and Arena is Freeware. Also good is Chess-Assistant (with MCS Support for WChess) and ChessTiger. But I don't know how strong is the WB / UCI support.
I believe an engine freak where will test the most of amateur programs will test under WinBoard or Arena (Arena have UCI support) and not under ChessBase GUI. Persons which like commercial GUIs or more linke the top programs Fritz, Hiarcs, Junior and Hiarcs will test under commercial GUIs.
I am sure this is fact, maybe not in your opinion!
Best
Frank

[Chris]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Chris at 13 March 2003 11:46:25:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: How to create Fritz native engine? geschrieben von: / posted by: Thomas Lagershausen at 13 March 2003 11:16:36:

Hi Igor,

I know some engines that exist as Fritz native also. This is Comet, Crafty,
List and EXchess.
How I can convert my own engine to Fritz native?

Afaik the natives of Crafty and EXChess are built from ChessBase themself... The others (I know about Gromit/Anaconda, List, Comet, Patzer, Ikarus, Phalanx, Goliath, InMiChess) have the special permission by ChessBase and get the specification of the interface - which is afaik different for every engine which means that the interface for Fritz is different to that from Junior etc. - maybe the interfaces of the amateurs are all similar, I don't know). Definitely there is no description how to create a native, it is not public. But who cares: Right now, we have the UCI interface which works quite well (after thousends of uci.dll's) - still not all issues are solved by Mathias Feist, but they are working on it... So it should be no real problem to connect to the ChessBase GUI via UCI... Anyway: PLEASE hold the winboard compatibility - I would not like to see WildCat going away... I feel also quite uncomfortable to have lost Gromit/Anaconda and List for the winboard world... Thanks...
Greets, Thomas

Hi Thomas,
a hand full programmers ...
Maybe the programmers where like to play Eng-Eng matches against the 6 non WB/UCI ChessBase native engines.
Only the engines:
1. Fritz
2. Junior
3. Hiarcs
4. ChessTiger
5. Ikarus
6. Doctor
- Anaconda (newer versions from Gromit, now Anaconda)
- List (newer versions)
are not compatible to standard protocols WB / UCI.
8 from over 180 !!

But these are the best ones!! Doing computerchess without these engs is like soccers champions league without Madrid, Munich, Manchester, Milano, ...
The other possibility for real engine freaks is using natives, ucis und wbs all together under fritz! So far the best one.

i don´t believe these are the best.Equal are CM9000SKR, Shredder 7 UCI, Rebel 12, Tiger 15.0 (CA).
As strong as Ananconda and List are SmarThink 16B (WB), Delfi 4.1 (WB),Pepito 1.59 (UCI+WB)etc.
So, we don´t need really this uncompatible engines for Arena.

Not for my taste, too much disneyworld like.

This might be the reason why Igor was asking for the native code ))
Coming into disneyworld.

Oppps.

[Chris]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Chris at 13 March 2003 11:50:20:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: How to create Fritz native engine? geschrieben von: / posted by: Frank Quisinsky at 13 March 2003 11:17:12:

Yes, Fritz5,6,7 and 8, Tiger, also Junior4-8 I assume are outstanding engines. And Hiarcs is a phanomen, too. No computerchess without these ones for me, thats fact for me, but everybody like he wants!
Chris

[Frank Quisinsky]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Frank Quisinsky at 13 March 2003 12:04:55:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: How to create Fritz native engine? geschrieben von: / posted by: Chris at 13 March 2003 11:50:20:

Yes, Fritz5,6,7 and 8, Tiger, also Junior4-8 I assume are outstanding engines. And Hiarcs is a phanomen, too. No computerchess without these ones for me, thats fact for me, but everybody like he wants!
Chris

Hi,
that's right.
This group of commercial engines are important for computer chess and a lot of chess fans / freaks (also for me).
Hiarcs is with Gandalf my favorite commercial program.
One of 3 reasons why I used ChessBase GUIs.
- Hiarcs
- Swiss tournaments
- great grafics
But I am not a grafic freak and have since years a lot of fun with WinBoard.
The most persons in chess fora have in the past written about here opinions and only a little group of persons try to see the group of different opinions.
This is a point where I dislike on chess fora and much persons where write in chess fora because other persons where read this messages have an other opinion and we have a little conflict / problem
I know it's not easy to try to understand the opinion from other persons.
In fact
All groups of persons are happy if programs compatible to standard protocols (UCI and WinBoard).
Do you have here the same opinion?
If yes, we are compatible!
Best
Frank

[Omid David]

Geschrieben von: / Posted by: Omid David at 13 March 2003 18:27:14:
Als Antwort auf: / In reply to: Re: How to create Fritz native engine? geschrieben von: / posted by: Frank Quisinsky at 13 March 2003 11:17:12:

Fritz is not the best GUI for the 179 WinBoard engines.
You need an adapter and the engines works not to 100%.

Are there any problems connecting WinBoard engines to ChessBase using wb2uci?
P.S. Yesterday I downloaded the latest version of Arena to test Genesis' analyze mode with it. The display of variations is realy nice! Although I think the display of variations would be more convenient from top to buttom.