Re: To Uli about Comet B68 ...

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Re: To Uli about Comet B68 ...

Postby Ulrich Tuerke » 15 Apr 2004, 10:48

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Ulrich Tuerke at 15 April 2004 11:48:19:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: To Uli about Comet B68 ... geschrieben von:/posted by: George at 14 April 2004 22:49:11:
Hi Uli,
[Event "Level=Blitz:5'+5". "]
[Site "Cold Lake"]
[Date "2004.04.14"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Comet B68"]
[Black "Monaghan, Jim"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C10"]
[WhiteElo "2490"]
[BlackElo "2035"]
[PlyCount "87"]
[EventDate "2004.04.14"]
{13310kB, CM4000.ctg. PII-300mmx/160mb
} 1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4
Nf6 5. Nxf6+ Qxf6 6. Nf3 h6 7. Bd3 Bd6 8. O-O O-O 9. Re1 c5 10. Be3 cxd4 11.
Bxd4 Qe7 12. Ne5 Nd7 13. Nxd7 Bxd7 14. Qg4 f5 15. Qh3 Bc6 16. Bc4 Bd7 17. Qb3
Qh4 18. g3 Qxd4 19. Rad1 Qb6 20. Qxb6 axb6 21. Rxd6 Rfc8 22. Bb3 Rc7 23. Rxd7
Rxd7 24. Bxe6+ Rf7 25. Rd1 Kf8 26. Bxf7 Kxf7 27. Rd7+ Kf6 28. Rd6+ Ke5 29. Rxb6
Rxa2 30. f4+ Ke4 31. Rxb7 Kf3 32. Rb3+ Ke2 33. c4 g5 34. c5 g4 35. c6 Ra1+ 36.
Kg2 Re1 37. c7 Kd2 38. c8=Q Re2+ 39. Kg1 Re1+ 40. Kf2 Re2+ 41. Kf1 Re1+ 42. Kf2
Re2+ 43. Kf1 Re1+ 44. Kf2 1/2-1/2

This may or may not be a problem. I just swindled a draw from Comet playing on an old P2-300 at a TC of 5 min + 5 sec by tricking the engine into a perpetual check trap. I ran it for over 40 minutes after the game and Comet still didn't want to play 38. Rd3+!. I realize this PC is about 20 times slower then a good PC these days, but still .... Could someone check to see if Comet still doesn't see the idea on a faster machine? The few other engines I checked see the idea pretty fast. Something's up ...
Comet B68 - Monaghan,J
8/2P5/7p/5p2/5Pp1/1R4P1/1P1k2KP/4r3 w - - 0 1
Analysis by Comet B68:
+- (12.19): 38.c8Q Re2+ 39.Kg1 Re1+ 40.Kf2 Re2+ 41.Kf1 Re1+
+- (7.51): 38.c8R Re2+ 39.Kf1 Re1+ 40.Kf2 Re2+ 41.Kg1
(Monaghan, Cold Lake 4/14/04)
Comet B62.3 doesn't find this at ply 13 so it's a problem for Comet:
Comet B62.3 WB2:
1 00:00 12,62 c7c8
2 00:00 12,23 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1
3 00:00 12,60 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2
4 00:00 12,23 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1
5 00:00 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
6 00:01 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2 f2f1 e2e1
7 00:01 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2 f2f1 e2e1
8 00:01 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
9 00:02 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
10 00:05 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2 f2f1 e2e1
11 00:11 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2 f2f1 e2e1
12 00:22 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
13 00:39 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
Thanks, I'll have a look.
Comet has a special algo attempting to find out perpetuals a bit earlier.
Could be that this is triggered too often; in a game of the last Paderborn tourney, there had also been a case where I had been suspecting that this might have happened; but unfortunately I had forgotten to analyze after the torney. :(
Greetings,
Uli
Ulrich Tuerke
 

Re: To Uli about Comet B68 ...

Postby Uri Blass » 15 Apr 2004, 14:01

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Uri Blass at 15 April 2004 15:01:07:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: To Uli about Comet B68 ... geschrieben von:/posted by: Ulrich Tuerke at 15 April 2004 11:48:19:
Hi Uli,
[Event "Level=Blitz:5'+5". "]
[Site "Cold Lake"]
[Date "2004.04.14"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Comet B68"]
[Black "Monaghan, Jim"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C10"]
[WhiteElo "2490"]
[BlackElo "2035"]
[PlyCount "87"]
[EventDate "2004.04.14"]
{13310kB, CM4000.ctg. PII-300mmx/160mb
} 1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4
Nf6 5. Nxf6+ Qxf6 6. Nf3 h6 7. Bd3 Bd6 8. O-O O-O 9. Re1 c5 10. Be3 cxd4 11.
Bxd4 Qe7 12. Ne5 Nd7 13. Nxd7 Bxd7 14. Qg4 f5 15. Qh3 Bc6 16. Bc4 Bd7 17. Qb3
Qh4 18. g3 Qxd4 19. Rad1 Qb6 20. Qxb6 axb6 21. Rxd6 Rfc8 22. Bb3 Rc7 23. Rxd7
Rxd7 24. Bxe6+ Rf7 25. Rd1 Kf8 26. Bxf7 Kxf7 27. Rd7+ Kf6 28. Rd6+ Ke5 29. Rxb6
Rxa2 30. f4+ Ke4 31. Rxb7 Kf3 32. Rb3+ Ke2 33. c4 g5 34. c5 g4 35. c6 Ra1+ 36.
Kg2 Re1 37. c7 Kd2 38. c8=Q Re2+ 39. Kg1 Re1+ 40. Kf2 Re2+ 41. Kf1 Re1+ 42. Kf2
Re2+ 43. Kf1 Re1+ 44. Kf2 1/2-1/2

This may or may not be a problem. I just swindled a draw from Comet playing on an old P2-300 at a TC of 5 min + 5 sec by tricking the engine into a perpetual check trap. I ran it for over 40 minutes after the game and Comet still didn't want to play 38. Rd3+!. I realize this PC is about 20 times slower then a good PC these days, but still .... Could someone check to see if Comet still doesn't see the idea on a faster machine? The few other engines I checked see the idea pretty fast. Something's up ...
Comet B68 - Monaghan,J
8/2P5/7p/5p2/5Pp1/1R4P1/1P1k2KP/4r3 w - - 0 1
Analysis by Comet B68:
+- (12.19): 38.c8Q Re2+ 39.Kg1 Re1+ 40.Kf2 Re2+ 41.Kf1 Re1+
+- (7.51): 38.c8R Re2+ 39.Kf1 Re1+ 40.Kf2 Re2+ 41.Kg1
(Monaghan, Cold Lake 4/14/04)
Comet B62.3 doesn't find this at ply 13 so it's a problem for Comet:
Comet B62.3 WB2:
1 00:00 12,62 c7c8
2 00:00 12,23 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1
3 00:00 12,60 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2
4 00:00 12,23 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1
5 00:00 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
6 00:01 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2 f2f1 e2e1
7 00:01 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2 f2f1 e2e1
8 00:01 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
9 00:02 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
10 00:05 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2 f2f1 e2e1
11 00:11 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2 f2f1 e2e1
12 00:22 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
13 00:39 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
Thanks, I'll have a look.
Comet has a special algo attempting to find out perpetuals a bit earlier.
Could be that this is triggered too often; in a game of the last Paderborn tourney, there had also been a case where I had been suspecting that this might have happened; but unfortunately I had forgotten to analyze after the torney. :(
Greetings,
Uli
It is probably a bug because Movei needs exactly 269 nodes to find draw score for c7c8 at depth 3.
Uri
Uri Blass
 

Re: To Uli about Comet B68 ...

Postby Ulrich Tuerke » 15 Apr 2004, 17:30

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Ulrich Tuerke at 15 April 2004 18:30:16:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: To Uli about Comet B68 ... geschrieben von:/posted by: Uri Blass at 15 April 2004 15:01:07:
Hi Uli,
[Event "Level=Blitz:5'+5". "]
[Site "Cold Lake"]
[Date "2004.04.14"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Comet B68"]
[Black "Monaghan, Jim"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C10"]
[WhiteElo "2490"]
[BlackElo "2035"]
[PlyCount "87"]
[EventDate "2004.04.14"]
{13310kB, CM4000.ctg. PII-300mmx/160mb
} 1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4
Nf6 5. Nxf6+ Qxf6 6. Nf3 h6 7. Bd3 Bd6 8. O-O O-O 9. Re1 c5 10. Be3 cxd4 11.
Bxd4 Qe7 12. Ne5 Nd7 13. Nxd7 Bxd7 14. Qg4 f5 15. Qh3 Bc6 16. Bc4 Bd7 17. Qb3
Qh4 18. g3 Qxd4 19. Rad1 Qb6 20. Qxb6 axb6 21. Rxd6 Rfc8 22. Bb3 Rc7 23. Rxd7
Rxd7 24. Bxe6+ Rf7 25. Rd1 Kf8 26. Bxf7 Kxf7 27. Rd7+ Kf6 28. Rd6+ Ke5 29. Rxb6
Rxa2 30. f4+ Ke4 31. Rxb7 Kf3 32. Rb3+ Ke2 33. c4 g5 34. c5 g4 35. c6 Ra1+ 36.
Kg2 Re1 37. c7 Kd2 38. c8=Q Re2+ 39. Kg1 Re1+ 40. Kf2 Re2+ 41. Kf1 Re1+ 42. Kf2
Re2+ 43. Kf1 Re1+ 44. Kf2 1/2-1/2

This may or may not be a problem. I just swindled a draw from Comet playing on an old P2-300 at a TC of 5 min + 5 sec by tricking the engine into a perpetual check trap. I ran it for over 40 minutes after the game and Comet still didn't want to play 38. Rd3+!. I realize this PC is about 20 times slower then a good PC these days, but still .... Could someone check to see if Comet still doesn't see the idea on a faster machine? The few other engines I checked see the idea pretty fast. Something's up ...
Comet B68 - Monaghan,J
8/2P5/7p/5p2/5Pp1/1R4P1/1P1k2KP/4r3 w - - 0 1
Analysis by Comet B68:
+- (12.19): 38.c8Q Re2+ 39.Kg1 Re1+ 40.Kf2 Re2+ 41.Kf1 Re1+
+- (7.51): 38.c8R Re2+ 39.Kf1 Re1+ 40.Kf2 Re2+ 41.Kg1
(Monaghan, Cold Lake 4/14/04)
Comet B62.3 doesn't find this at ply 13 so it's a problem for Comet:
Comet B62.3 WB2:
1 00:00 12,62 c7c8
2 00:00 12,23 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1
3 00:00 12,60 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2
4 00:00 12,23 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1
5 00:00 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
6 00:01 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2 f2f1 e2e1
7 00:01 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2 f2f1 e2e1
8 00:01 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
9 00:02 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
10 00:05 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2 f2f1 e2e1
11 00:11 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2g1 e2e1 g1f2 e1e2 f2f1 e2e1
12 00:22 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
13 00:39 12,19 c7c8 e1e2 g2f1 e2e1 f1f2 e1e2 f2g1 e2e1
Thanks, I'll have a look.
Comet has a special algo attempting to find out perpetuals a bit earlier.
Could be that this is triggered too often; in a game of the last Paderborn tourney, there had also been a case where I had been suspecting that this might have happened; but unfortunately I had forgotten to analyze after the torney. :(
Greetings,
Uli
It is probably a bug because Movei needs exactly 269 nodes to find draw score for c7c8 at depth 3.
Uri
You are right; this looks really weird. It seems for some reason the main line will be erroneously cutted after a few plies with the search returning a high score.
Thx, Uri.
Uli
Ulrich Tuerke
 


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