Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Günther Simon at 17 May 2004 22:07:53:
IP 80.145.254.139
Port 17077
conditions like in real RWBC tourneys except
time control = 40moves/4minutes
- Fruit_X0509 plays with my experimental big ThinkerBook
- Jonny, Snitch, Rybka and Monarch play with my main ThinkerBook
Table so far:
RANK  ENGINE GAMES POINTS  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1.  JONNY_262 4  4.0 * . . . 1 . . . . . . 1 1 1 . .
 2.  DANCHESS_104D 4  3.5 . * . . . . . . = . . 1 1 1 . .
 3.  ZAPPA_070X  4  3.0 . . * . 0 . . 1 . . . . 1 . 1 .
 4.  RYBKA_1532  4  3.0 . . . * . . . . 1 1 1 0 . . . .
 5.  FRUIT_X0509 4  3.0 0 . 1 . * . . 1 . . . . . . 1 .
 6.  NEUROSIS_18B  3  2.0 . . . . . * . . . = = . . . 1 .
 7.  SNITCH_0357 2  2.0 . . . . . . * . . . . 1 . 1 . .
 8.  BOOOT_33  4  1.5 . . 0 . 0 . . * . . . . = 1 . .
 9.  NAGASKAKI_301 3  1.5 . = . 0 . . . . * . . . . . . 1
10.  HERMANN_111 3  1.5 . . . 0 . = . . . * . . . . . 1
11.  CHISPA_4032 3  1.5 . . . 0 . = . . . . * . . . . 1
12.  SHARPER_017 4  1.0 0 0 . 1 . . 0 . . . . * . . . .
13.  DRUNKENMASTER_10  4  0.5 0 0 0 . . . . = . . . . * . . .
14.  TINKER_447  4  0.0 0 0 . . . . 0 0 . . . . . * . .
15.  CHIRON_038  3  0.0 . . 0 . 0 0 . . . . . . . . * .
16.  MONARCH_10  3  0.0 . . . . . . . . 0 0 0 . . . . *
Winboard Forum
Discussions (not only) about Xboard/Winboard, Computer Chess and Chess Programming
RWBC test tourney LIVE(almost Class D test)
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Re: RWBC test tourney LIVE(almost Class D test)
by Daniel Shawul » 18 May 2004, 05:36
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Daniel Shawul at 18 May 2004 06:36:05:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: RWBC test tourney LIVE(almost Class D test) geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 17 May 2004 22:07:53:
Hi Gunther
I really want to see the result of danchess 1.04d in this tourney.
I have almost decided to dump 1.04d and go on with the faster 104c after
seeing frustrating results of 1.04d in WBEC qualify and other tests.If it losses
all of the games against the stronger engines like Jonny,Zappa,fruit,snitch etc
i am done with it.
best wishes
daniel
>   1.   JONNY_262                4     4.0    *  .  .  .  1  .  .  .  .  .  .  1  1  1  .  .  
>   2.   DANCHESS_104D            4     3.5    .  *  .  .  .  .  .  .  =  .  .  1  1  1  .  .  
>   3.   ZAPPA_070X               4     3.0    .  .  *  .  0  .  .  1  .  .  .  .  1  .  1  .  
>   4.   RYBKA_1532               4     3.0    .  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  1  1  1  0  .  .  .  .  
>   5.   FRUIT_X0509              4     3.0    0  .  1  .  *  .  .  1  .  .  .  .  .  .  1  .  
>   6.   NEUROSIS_18B             3     2.0    .  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  =  =  .  .  .  1  .  
>   7.   SNITCH_0357              2     2.0    .  .  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  1  .  1  .  .  
>   8.   BOOOT_33                 4     1.5    .  .  0  .  0  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  =  1  .  .  
>   9.   NAGASKAKI_301            3     1.5    .  =  .  0  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  .  .  1  
>  10.   HERMANN_111              3     1.5    .  .  .  0  .  =  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  .  1  
>  11.   CHISPA_4032              3     1.5    .  .  .  0  .  =  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  1  
>  12.   SHARPER_017              4     1.0    0  0  .  1  .  .  0  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  
>  13.   DRUNKENMASTER_10         4     0.5    0  0  0  .  .  .  .  =  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  
>  14.   TINKER_447               4     0.0    0  0  .  .  .  .  0  0  .  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  
>  15.   CHIRON_038               3     0.0    .  .  0  .  0  0  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  *  .  
>  16.   MONARCH_10               3     0.0    .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  0  0  0  .  .  .  .  *
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: RWBC test tourney LIVE(almost Class D test) geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 17 May 2004 22:07:53:
Hi Gunther
I really want to see the result of danchess 1.04d in this tourney.
I have almost decided to dump 1.04d and go on with the faster 104c after
seeing frustrating results of 1.04d in WBEC qualify and other tests.If it losses
all of the games against the stronger engines like Jonny,Zappa,fruit,snitch etc
i am done with it.
best wishes
daniel
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------IP 80.145.254.139
Port 17077
conditions like in real RWBC tourneys except
time control = 40moves/4minutes
- Fruit_X0509 plays with my experimental big ThinkerBook
- Jonny, Snitch, Rybka and Monarch play with my main ThinkerBook
Table so far:
RANK   ENGINE                GAMES  POINTS   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 
>   1.   JONNY_262                4     4.0    *  .  .  .  1  .  .  .  .  .  .  1  1  1  .  .  
>   2.   DANCHESS_104D            4     3.5    .  *  .  .  .  .  .  .  =  .  .  1  1  1  .  .  
>   3.   ZAPPA_070X               4     3.0    .  .  *  .  0  .  .  1  .  .  .  .  1  .  1  .  
>   4.   RYBKA_1532               4     3.0    .  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  1  1  1  0  .  .  .  .  
>   5.   FRUIT_X0509              4     3.0    0  .  1  .  *  .  .  1  .  .  .  .  .  .  1  .  
>   6.   NEUROSIS_18B             3     2.0    .  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  =  =  .  .  .  1  .  
>   7.   SNITCH_0357              2     2.0    .  .  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  1  .  1  .  .  
>   8.   BOOOT_33                 4     1.5    .  .  0  .  0  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  =  1  .  .  
>   9.   NAGASKAKI_301            3     1.5    .  =  .  0  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  .  .  1  
>  10.   HERMANN_111              3     1.5    .  .  .  0  .  =  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  .  1  
>  11.   CHISPA_4032              3     1.5    .  .  .  0  .  =  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  1  
>  12.   SHARPER_017              4     1.0    0  0  .  1  .  .  0  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  .  
>  13.   DRUNKENMASTER_10         4     0.5    0  0  0  .  .  .  .  =  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  .  
>  14.   TINKER_447               4     0.0    0  0  .  .  .  .  0  0  .  .  .  .  .  *  .  .  
>  15.   CHIRON_038               3     0.0    .  .  0  .  0  0  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  *  .  
>  16.   MONARCH_10               3     0.0    .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  0  0  0  .  .  .  .  *
- Daniel Shawul
New IP 80.145.248.57 port 17077
by Günther Simon » 18 May 2004, 07:15
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 08:15:44:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: RWBC test tourney LIVE(almost Class D test) geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 17 May 2004 22:07:53:
 1.  JONNY_262 6  6.0 * . 1 1 . . . . 1 1 . 1 . . 1 .
 2.  RYBKA_1532  7  5.5 . * = . 1 1 . . . 0 . 1 1 . 1 .
 3.  FRUIT_X0509 7  5.0 0 = * 1 . . 1 = 1 . . . . 1 . .
 4.  ZAPPA_070X  7  4.0 0 . 0 * . . 1 0 1 . . 1 . 1 . .
 5.  NAGASKAKI_301 6  4.0 . 0 . . * = = . . . 1 . 1 . . 1
 6.  HERMANN_111 7  4.0 . 0 . . = * . . . 1 = . 1 0 . 1
 7.  DANCHESS_104D 7  3.5 . . 0 0 = . * . 0 1 . 1 . . 1 .
 8.  SNITCH_0357 5  3.5 . . = 1 . . . * . 1 . 0 . . 1 .
 9.  BOOOT_33  7  3.0 0 . 0 0 . . 1 . * . . = . = 1 .
10.  SHARPER_017 7  3.0 0 1 . . . 0 0 0 . * 1 . . . . 1
11.  NEUROSIS_18B  6  3.0 . . . . 0 = . . . 0 * . = 1 1 .
12.  DRUNKENMASTER_10  7  2.5 0 0 . 0 . . 0 1 = . . * . . . 1
13.  CHISPA_4032 6  2.5 . 0 . . 0 0 . . . . = . * 1 . 1
14.  CHIRON_038  6  1.5 . . 0 0 . 1 . . = . 0 . 0 * . .
15.  TINKER_447  7  1.0 0 0 . . . . 0 0 0 . 0 . . . * 1
16.  MONARCH_10  6  0.0 . . . . 0 0 . . . 0 . 0 0 . 0 *
Total games = 52
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: RWBC test tourney LIVE(almost Class D test) geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 17 May 2004 22:07:53:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------IP 80.145.254.139
Port 17077
conditions like in real RWBC tourneys except
time control = 40moves/4minutes
- Fruit_X0509 plays with my experimental big ThinkerBook
- Jonny, Snitch, Rybka and Monarch play with my main ThinkerBook
Table so far:
 RANK  ENGINE GAMES POINTS  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 
 1.  JONNY_262 6  6.0 * . 1 1 . . . . 1 1 . 1 . . 1 .
 2.  RYBKA_1532  7  5.5 . * = . 1 1 . . . 0 . 1 1 . 1 .
 3.  FRUIT_X0509 7  5.0 0 = * 1 . . 1 = 1 . . . . 1 . .
 4.  ZAPPA_070X  7  4.0 0 . 0 * . . 1 0 1 . . 1 . 1 . .
 5.  NAGASKAKI_301 6  4.0 . 0 . . * = = . . . 1 . 1 . . 1
 6.  HERMANN_111 7  4.0 . 0 . . = * . . . 1 = . 1 0 . 1
 7.  DANCHESS_104D 7  3.5 . . 0 0 = . * . 0 1 . 1 . . 1 .
 8.  SNITCH_0357 5  3.5 . . = 1 . . . * . 1 . 0 . . 1 .
 9.  BOOOT_33  7  3.0 0 . 0 0 . . 1 . * . . = . = 1 .
10.  SHARPER_017 7  3.0 0 1 . . . 0 0 0 . * 1 . . . . 1
11.  NEUROSIS_18B  6  3.0 . . . . 0 = . . . 0 * . = 1 1 .
12.  DRUNKENMASTER_10  7  2.5 0 0 . 0 . . 0 1 = . . * . . . 1
13.  CHISPA_4032 6  2.5 . 0 . . 0 0 . . . . = . * 1 . 1
14.  CHIRON_038  6  1.5 . . 0 0 . 1 . . = . 0 . 0 * . .
15.  TINKER_447  7  1.0 0 0 . . . . 0 0 0 . 0 . . . * 1
16.  MONARCH_10  6  0.0 . . . . 0 0 . . . 0 . 0 0 . 0 *
Total games = 52
- Günther Simon
note about Monarch 1.0
by Günther Simon » 18 May 2004, 07:21
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 08:21:41:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: New IP 80.145.248.57 port 17077 geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 08:15:44:
games on time so far
(always between move 35-38).
Seems it does not work quite good with Polyglot or does this
problem also exist under UCI GUIs?
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   1.   JONNY_262                6     6.0    *  .  1  1  .  .  .  .  1  1  .  1  .  .  1  .  
>   2.   RYBKA_1532               7     5.5    .  *  =  .  1  1  .  .  .  0  .  1  1  .  1  .  
>   3.   FRUIT_X0509              7     5.0    0  =  *  1  .  .  1  =  1  .  .  .  .  1  .  .  
>   4.   ZAPPA_070X               7     4.0    0  .  0  *  .  .  1  0  1  .  .  1  .  1  .  .  
>   5.   NAGASKAKI_301            6     4.0    .  0  .  .  *  =  =  .  .  .  1  .  1  .  .  1  
>   6.   HERMANN_111              7     4.0    .  0  .  .  =  *  .  .  .  1  =  .  1  0  .  1  
>   7.   DANCHESS_104D            7     3.5    .  .  0  0  =  .  *  .  0  1  .  1  .  .  1  .  
>   8.   SNITCH_0357              5     3.5    .  .  =  1  .  .  .  *  .  1  .  0  .  .  1  .  
>   9.   BOOOT_33                 7     3.0    0  .  0  0  .  .  1  .  *  .  .  =  .  =  1  .  
>  10.   SHARPER_017              7     3.0    0  1  .  .  .  0  0  0  .  *  1  .  .  .  .  1  
>  11.   NEUROSIS_18B             6     3.0    .  .  .  .  0  =  .  .  .  0  *  .  =  1  1  .  
>  12.   DRUNKENMASTER_10         7     2.5    0  0  .  0  .  .  0  1  =  .  .  *  .  .  .  1  
>  13.   CHISPA_4032              6     2.5    .  0  .  .  0  0  .  .  .  .  =  .  *  1  .  1  
>  14.   CHIRON_038               6     1.5    .  .  0  0  .  1  .  .  =  .  0  .  0  *  .  .  
>  15.   TINKER_447               7     1.0    0  0  .  .  .  .  0  0  0  .  0  .  .  .  *  1  
>  16.   MONARCH_10               6     0.0    .  .  .  .  0  0  .  .  .  0  .  0  0  .  0  *  
>Total games = 52
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: New IP 80.145.248.57 port 17077 geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 08:15:44:
The results of Monarch cant be considered, as it had lost allIP 80.145.254.139
Port 17077
conditions like in real RWBC tourneys except
time control = 40moves/4minutes
- Fruit_X0509 plays with my experimental big ThinkerBook
- Jonny, Snitch, Rybka and Monarch play with my main ThinkerBook
Table so far:
 RANK   ENGINE                GAMES  POINTS   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 
games on time so far
(always between move 35-38).Seems it does not work quite good with Polyglot or does this
problem also exist under UCI GUIs?
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   1.   JONNY_262                6     6.0    *  .  1  1  .  .  .  .  1  1  .  1  .  .  1  .  
>   2.   RYBKA_1532               7     5.5    .  *  =  .  1  1  .  .  .  0  .  1  1  .  1  .  
>   3.   FRUIT_X0509              7     5.0    0  =  *  1  .  .  1  =  1  .  .  .  .  1  .  .  
>   4.   ZAPPA_070X               7     4.0    0  .  0  *  .  .  1  0  1  .  .  1  .  1  .  .  
>   5.   NAGASKAKI_301            6     4.0    .  0  .  .  *  =  =  .  .  .  1  .  1  .  .  1  
>   6.   HERMANN_111              7     4.0    .  0  .  .  =  *  .  .  .  1  =  .  1  0  .  1  
>   7.   DANCHESS_104D            7     3.5    .  .  0  0  =  .  *  .  0  1  .  1  .  .  1  .  
>   8.   SNITCH_0357              5     3.5    .  .  =  1  .  .  .  *  .  1  .  0  .  .  1  .  
>   9.   BOOOT_33                 7     3.0    0  .  0  0  .  .  1  .  *  .  .  =  .  =  1  .  
>  10.   SHARPER_017              7     3.0    0  1  .  .  .  0  0  0  .  *  1  .  .  .  .  1  
>  11.   NEUROSIS_18B             6     3.0    .  .  .  .  0  =  .  .  .  0  *  .  =  1  1  .  
>  12.   DRUNKENMASTER_10         7     2.5    0  0  .  0  .  .  0  1  =  .  .  *  .  .  .  1  
>  13.   CHISPA_4032              6     2.5    .  0  .  .  0  0  .  .  .  .  =  .  *  1  .  1  
>  14.   CHIRON_038               6     1.5    .  .  0  0  .  1  .  .  =  .  0  .  0  *  .  .  
>  15.   TINKER_447               7     1.0    0  0  .  .  .  .  0  0  0  .  0  .  .  .  *  1  
>  16.   MONARCH_10               6     0.0    .  .  .  .  0  0  .  .  .  0  .  0  0  .  0  *  
>Total games = 52
- Günther Simon
Re: New IP 80.145.248.57 port 17077
by Daniel Shawul » 18 May 2004, 07:25
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Daniel Shawul at 18 May 2004 08:25:44:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: New IP 80.145.248.57 port 17077 geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 08:15:44:
Hi Gunther
I have now decided , please use
DanChess 1.04c (with BookThinker) in the tournament.
1.04d is too slow to be competitive. It is also better for others
to use 1.04c in competitions.
best
daniel
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: New IP 80.145.248.57 port 17077 geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 08:15:44:
Hi Gunther
I have now decided , please use
DanChess 1.04c (with BookThinker) in the tournament.
1.04d is too slow to be competitive. It is also better for others
to use 1.04c in competitions.
best
daniel
- Daniel Shawul
Re: New IP 80.145.248.57 port 17077
by Günther Simon » 18 May 2004, 07:38
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 08:38:32:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: New IP 80.145.248.57 port 17077 geschrieben von:/posted by: Daniel Shawul at 18 May 2004 08:25:44:
If DanChess 1.04d is slower than 1.04c you should not rely
on the results of fast time controls like in this test
tourney. May be your new version does much better at my
rapid time control?
Best,
Günther
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: New IP 80.145.248.57 port 17077 geschrieben von:/posted by: Daniel Shawul at 18 May 2004 08:25:44:
Hi Daniel,Hi Gunther
I have now decided , please use
DanChess 1.04c (with BookThinker) in the tournament.
1.04d is too slow to be competitive. It is also better for others
to use 1.04c in competitions.
best
daniel
If DanChess 1.04d is slower than 1.04c you should not rely
on the results of fast time controls like in this test
tourney. May be your new version does much better at my
rapid time control?
Best,
Günther
- Günther Simon
Re: New IP 80.145.248.57 port 17077
by Daniel Shawul » 18 May 2004, 07:59
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Daniel Shawul at 18 May 2004 08:59:04:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: New IP 80.145.248.57 port 17077 geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 08:38:32:
at the moment. I have also informed Leo about it.
1.04c + bookthinker seems to be better at the moment. It is not the time control. Leo uses 40 moves in 40 minutes time control and still result is very annoying. So please continue using 1.04c for class D.
best
daniel
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: New IP 80.145.248.57 port 17077 geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 08:38:32:
It is very slow especially in endgames. So far results of 1.04c from other testers has been very encouraging. so i see no reason not to use 1.04c at leastHi Daniel,Hi Gunther
I have now decided , please use
DanChess 1.04c (with BookThinker) in the tournament.
1.04d is too slow to be competitive. It is also better for others
to use 1.04c in competitions.
best
daniel
If DanChess 1.04d is slower than 1.04c you should not rely
on the results of fast time controls like in this test
tourney. May be your new version does much better at my
rapid time control?
Best,
Günther
at the moment. I have also informed Leo about it.
1.04c + bookthinker seems to be better at the moment. It is not the time control. Leo uses 40 moves in 40 minutes time control and still result is very annoying. So please continue using 1.04c for class D.
best
daniel
- Daniel Shawul
Re: note about Monarch 1.0
by Steve Maughan » 18 May 2004, 17:12
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Steve Maughan at 18 May 2004 18:12:24:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: note about Monarch 1.0 geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 08:21:41:
Günther,
Thanks for this feedback. I haven't tested Monarch with PolyGlot so the problem will probably be with the Monarch PolyGlot communication. I'll look into it.
Thanks,
Steve Maughan
http://www.stevemaughan.com
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: note about Monarch 1.0 geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 08:21:41:
Günther,
Thanks for this feedback. I haven't tested Monarch with PolyGlot so the problem will probably be with the Monarch PolyGlot communication. I'll look into it.
Thanks,
Steve Maughan
http://www.stevemaughan.com
- Steve Maughan
Re: note about Monarch 1.0
by Günther Simon » 18 May 2004, 18:11
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 19:11:31:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: note about Monarch 1.0 geschrieben von:/posted by: Steve Maughan at 18 May 2004 18:12:24:
Best regards,
Günther
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: note about Monarch 1.0 geschrieben von:/posted by: Steve Maughan at 18 May 2004 18:12:24:
I can send you some logs/debugs if you want?Günther,
Thanks for this feedback. I haven't tested Monarch with PolyGlot so the problem will probably be with the Monarch PolyGlot communication. I'll look into it.
Thanks,
Steve Maughan
Best regards,
Günther
- Günther Simon
Re: note about Monarch 1.0
by Fabien Letouzey » 18 May 2004, 18:25
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Fabien Letouzey at 18 May 2004 19:25:27:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: note about Monarch 1.0 geschrieben von:/posted by: G�nther Simon at 18 May 2004 19:11:31:
Fabien.
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: note about Monarch 1.0 geschrieben von:/posted by: G�nther Simon at 18 May 2004 19:11:31:
Send them to me as well, quick if possible.I can send you some logs/debugs if you want?G�nther,
Thanks for this feedback. I haven't tested Monarch with PolyGlot so the problem will probably be with the Monarch PolyGlot communication. I'll look into it.
Thanks,
Steve Maughan
Best regards,
G�nther
Fabien.
- Fabien Letouzey
Re: note about Monarch 1.0
by Steve Maughan » 18 May 2004, 19:25
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Steve Maughan at 18 May 2004 20:25:19:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: note about Monarch 1.0 geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 19:11:31:
Günther,
Steve
http://www.stevemaughan.com
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: note about Monarch 1.0 geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 19:11:31:
Günther,
That would be great - thanks,I can send you some logs/debugs if you want?
Steve
http://www.stevemaughan.com
- Steve Maughan
logs sent to both of you...(n/t)
by Günther Simon » 18 May 2004, 20:06
Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 21:06:14:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: note about Monarch 1.0 geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 08:21:41:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: note about Monarch 1.0 geschrieben von:/posted by: Günther Simon at 18 May 2004 08:21:41:
- Günther Simon
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