just a try :-)

[Igor Gorelikov]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Igor Gorelikov at 15 July 2004 17:12:49:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: another try geschrieben von:/posted by: Heinz van Kempen at 15 July 2004 16:43:01:

Hello Igor,
fine that you also want to participate. We need experienced testers. I can coordinate but do not want to make all the decisions, especially do not want to carry the burden of having to exclude a lot of fine engines that also deserve to participate. Maybe a qualify would be the best and fairest solution, although it is time consuming.
I would like to collect all email addresses from testers, that are not available here, so all interested up to now and all those who come later, please write one email to hvankempen@web.de. There will be a democratic decision how to proceed concerning qualify and/or choice of participants. So maybe you can all write down a list of favourite engines in the mail.
For settings I would make the following proposal:
40 moves in 40 minutes on a 2Ghz machine
64 MB Hash
All other proposals for settings that are considered to be optimal from the authors themselves.
Here also other proposals are welcome and we can make a voting from all testers if there are different ones concerning time control for instance.
Ten engines is not really a lot and what I would consider a big tournament. When getting more than 5 testers, more engines should be able to participate.
Best Regards
Heinz

My proposal:
1. For a start, it would be good to run a test event on all computers of the testers. It should be small (10 participants) and with short enough time control (I vote for 30 min + 3 sec inc). So it may be concluded in several days.
2. If all would be fine, then we may expand the event:
a) run more rounds,
b) add more participants via gauntlets,
c) set long time control.
3. To select 10 engines: each tester suggests his list of Top Ten. Then we sum scores of all lists. 10 score for the first place, 9 score for the second place and so on.
4. My suggestion for settings:
38 MB hash; 3-men, 4-men Nalimov's TBs,
Galis WBTM 0.5.0 or Arena.
5. As the coordinator (my vote) you should collect all suggestions and list them for vote (on the forum). So that your burden will be spread among all participants
regards,
Igor

[Heinz van Kempen]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Heinz van Kempen at 15 July 2004 17:37:56:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: another try geschrieben von:/posted by: Igor Gorelikov at 15 July 2004 17:12:49:

My proposal:
1. For a start, it would be good to run a test event on all computers of the testers. It should be small (10 participants) and with short enough time control (I vote for 30 min + 3 sec inc). So it may be concluded in several days.
2. If all would be fine, then we may expand the event:
a) run more rounds,
b) add more participants via gauntlets,
c) set long time control.
3. To select 10 engines: each tester suggests his list of Top Ten. Then we sum scores of all lists. 10 score for the first place, 9 score for the second place and so on.
4. My suggestion for settings:
38 MB hash; 3-men, 4-men Nalimov's TBs,
Galis WBTM 0.5.0 or Arena.
5. As the coordinator (my vote) you should collect all suggestions and list them for vote (on the forum). So that your burden will be spread among all participants
regards,
Igor

Hello Igor,
all those suggestions and votes will be available here in three days. Up to that time we should know approximately how much chess enthusiasts will participate and how much CPU time is available from each one.
A shorter test tournament beforehand would also be fine. Maybe the best from that one that are not already included by votes can also participate as qualifiers.
But I see another very fine idea amongst your propasals. We could for example start with only a few engines and then add one after one and also new releases via gauntlets later on, so that it will be a continuous and long lasting tournament for those who want to carry this on a bit more.
Your proposal of giving points is also fine, so I think each tester can give 20 points for his choice one down to one point for his choice twenty and all those points will be added to choose for example the ten to start with. I have mainly two aims personally. First to have at least 100 games for each engine version, secondly to add as much engines as possible, depending on how many testers we can activate.
For most proposals I am still inclined to use email. Otherwise we will get very long threads here.
I will work something out over the next days:
-participants for the test tournament for voting
-number of participants for voting
-five different options for time control for voting
-five different options for hash for voting
-two different options for EGTB
-and so on
I will send this all for voting to the testers who participate within three days.
What refers to the choice of participants you can already send an email earlier on. Please make a ranking list of favourites from position 1 to 20.
Best Regards
Heinz

[Olivier Deville]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Olivier Deville at 15 July 2004 17:38:56:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: just a try geschrieben von:/posted by: Eric Oldre at 15. July 2004 16:03:

My Athlon 64 is playing the games of ChessWar tournament night and day, but I have free CPU on my 2 other computers : a PIV 3G and an Athlon 1700+.

I agree with Volker concerning the tournament manager , but we will give our opinion, of course !
Olivier

Olivier,
I've been working very hard on trying to get a new engine created in time to have it be ready for the chesswar tounament you are starting after this one finishes. It's already a bit stronger than murderhole was but there is still much work to be done.
I didn't know that you ran ChessWar on an Athlon 64. Does that mean that it would be possible to use a engine in ChessWar that is compilied for 64-bit use?

Hello Eric
It's good to hear that a new engine is coming
I use WinXP Home, so it's too early for 64bit engines. I know Windows 64bit is available for testing, but really I'm scared to install that stuff on my brand new computer... I have been told that drivers are not available yet, and you'll have no modem, a low resolution screen, etc. Let's testers work !
Olivier



ChessWar

[Bryan Hofmann]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Bryan Hofmann at 15 July 2004 17:52:10:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: another try geschrieben von:/posted by: Igor Gorelikov at 15 July 2004 17:12:49:

Hello Igor,
fine that you also want to participate. We need experienced testers. I can coordinate but do not want to make all the decisions, especially do not want to carry the burden of having to exclude a lot of fine engines that also deserve to participate. Maybe a qualify would be the best and fairest solution, although it is time consuming.
I would like to collect all email addresses from testers, that are not available here, so all interested up to now and all those who come later, please write one email to hvankempen@web.de. There will be a democratic decision how to proceed concerning qualify and/or choice of participants. So maybe you can all write down a list of favourite engines in the mail.
For settings I would make the following proposal:
40 moves in 40 minutes on a 2Ghz machine
64 MB Hash
All other proposals for settings that are considered to be optimal from the authors themselves.
Here also other proposals are welcome and we can make a voting from all testers if there are different ones concerning time control for instance.
Ten engines is not really a lot and what I would consider a big tournament. When getting more than 5 testers, more engines should be able to participate.
Best Regards
Heinz

My proposal:
1. For a start, it would be good to run a test event on all computers of the testers. It should be small (10 participants) and with short enough time control (I vote for 30 min + 3 sec inc). So it may be concluded in several days.
2. If all would be fine, then we may expand the event:
a) run more rounds,
b) add more participants via gauntlets,
c) set long time control.
3. To select 10 engines: each tester suggests his list of Top Ten. Then we sum scores of all lists. 10 score for the first place, 9 score for the second place and so on.
4. My suggestion for settings:
38 MB hash; 3-men, 4-men Nalimov's TBs,
Galis WBTM 0.5.0 or Arena.
5. As the coordinator (my vote) you should collect all suggestions and list them for vote (on the forum). So that your burden will be spread among all participants
regards,
Igor

This is now where near enough HASH for that time control on faster systems. For Crafty on my system the min hash settings would be 96M for hash and 24M for pawn hash.
Crafty v19.15 WCCC
White(1): adap 1.3M 1M 198M 1M 96M
adaptive estimated NPS = 1300K
adaptive minimum hsize = 1M
adaptive maximum hsize = 198M
adaptive minimum psize = 1M
adaptive maximum psize = 96M
White(1): level 0 30 3
game/30 minutes primary time control
increment 3 seconds.
time limit 1:05 (7:37)
hash table memory = 96M bytes.
pawn hash table memory = 24M bytes.

[Christian Koch]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Christian Koch at 15 July 2004 19:55:57:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: just a try geschrieben von:/posted by: Heinz van Kempen at 15 July 2004 10:41:16:

Hello Heinz,
I would like to participate
best regards,
Christian

[Heinz van Kempen]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Heinz van Kempen at 15 July 2004 20:12:09:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: just a try geschrieben von:/posted by: Christian Koch at 15 July 2004 19:55:57:

Hello Heinz,
I would like to participate
best regards,
Christian

Hello Christian,
fine, I still remember those times when we played manually with the dedicated chess computers for many hours. Should be around 20 years ago.
The proceeding is now that I am still waiting for more testers. On Sunday I will send an Excel sheet to all, where everyone only has to drop an X behind the different options for time controls, hash, EGTB etc.. Proposals from all via email will be included.
One additional note. Of course anyone can retreat as soon as he looses interest. The games send until then of course count. There is no obligation to deliver a certain amount of games in a certain time. I will see that all engines will have approximately the same amount of games at any time, on the other hand the percentage of winning points will also be given and give a better indication for performance until all games are played.
In three days we will also know how many testers participate and can then calculate how many engines can participate for a decent amount of games over a period of four or six weeks.
In the next step we can depending on this amount discuss the kind of tournament and all other conditions that were not already voted for in the sheet.
We will surely come to an agreement that suits all.
Best Regards
Heinz

[Roger Brown]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Roger Brown at 15 July 2004 23:44:12:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: just a try geschrieben von:/posted by: Heinz van Kempen at 15 July 2004 10:41:16:

Hello Heinz,
Fascinating proposal..except for stimulating the 2000 mhz machine.
On my machine one game would be about three hours.

I await the outcome.

Later.

[Heinz van Kempen]

Geschrieben von:/Posted by: Heinz van Kempen at 16 July 2004 00:05:01:
Als Antwort auf:/In reply to: Re: just a try geschrieben von:/posted by: Roger Brown at 15 July 2004 23:44:12:

Hello Heinz,
Fascinating proposal..except for stimulating the 2000 mhz machine.
On my machine one game would be about three hours.

I await the outcome.

Later.

Hello Roger,
of course I know that not all have fast machines and I doubt that I will find a sponsor who gives free computers to all testers . Anyway you can of course contribute a few games. All help is welcome.
I repeat that there is no obligation to deliver a certain amount of games very rapidly.
Especially for a group B where interested authors of middle class and weaker engines should be included more help is needed. I will add also one computer to that one, if there is a bit more help, additionally to Volker Anuss. Authors can also test (they do it anyway, but most not with this time control), their respective engines will participate then but will be tested of course by others.
Esa también es una invitación para todos los autores de habla español. Algunos lancharon motores muy interesantes en los últimos meses y ya hay muchos progresos con nuevas versiones.
Thanks for your interest.
Un saludo muy cordial, Best Regards
Heinz